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A reminder to RSO's and people who own hand cannons...
#1
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So one of my wife's friends is an anti and I finally convinced her to go to the range with my wife and I just so that she can actually know about what she wants the government to ban. We get to the range (indoor) and in the vestibule I can see she's already terrified at how loud it is as we get eyes and ears on, she's visibly shaking. I inform the RSO that this is going to be her first time shooting. We make our way to an empty lane at the end of the row away from everyone else the only 3 or 4 lanes are occupied at the other end out of like 15 or so. I'm showing my wife's friend how to properly hold a semiauto 9mm and a .38 special revolver. Out of the corner of my eye I see some guy come in talk to the RSO and then he promptly sets up shop in the lane right next to us and his .500S&W mag revolver starts barking and concussing this woman who is already terrified of guns. He could clearly see that I was in the process of teaching a new shooter if the RSO didn't already tell him. I ended up packing up our gear and relocating our operation because I could see her flinching every time this dude squeezed off a round and the fact that it was indoors was not helping the situation at all and harming the experience I was aiming to create. After about the 30 or 40th shot even I found it really obnoxious. I don't think we changed my wife's friend about guns tonight, but my wife and I got her to admit that it wasn't as bad as she expected and now she understands semi auto and auto as well as understanding how hard handgun aiming really is at distance and how hi cap mags really aren't that unreasonable. She was genuinely surprised at how quick she could burn through a 21 shot mag. I think however her experience would have been much more positive if not for this careless moron.

The moral of the story here is if you're one of those dudes who has a tiny dick and you crave showing your substitute artificial phallus off to prove what an alpha you are in front of some cute chick... please do your cause a favor and don't set up shop next to the new shooter being trained who is already shaking like a leaf and terrified of guns. You're not helping our cause of gun ownership what-so-ever you fucking asshole. Angry Pay attention to your surroundings when you're deciding where to set up and try to be just a little bit courteous towards those around you for god sakes! It's like being hovered over while you're at the urinal.

Also, if you are the one showing your girlfriend or child how to shoot... please do yourself a favor and don't let them start off with your .500S&W or Desert Eagle. It's a good way to get someone to put one bullet downrange, maybe get kissed on the forehead and never want to pick up a gun again.
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#2
So annoying when people do that. I 100% blame the RO.
The law? The law is a human institution...
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#3
New people flinch for about 5 minutes in a busy indoor gun range. The easiest way to get them to relax is to just talk to them for a while--they're more focused on what you're saying the pop-pop-chikchikBOOM-pop going off all around them finally turns into white noise.

By quieting things down and trying to move her away from the other action I think you just made it worse.

I've taken noobs to shoot 9mm and graduate to .30-06 and 12GA on their first trip; never had a noob yet who didn't get a clear feel for what they're doing about halfway through.


I try not to bury so much body position guidance into a first-timer or even correct their aim... I'll let them go through a couple mags first to get used to the recoil and then show a noob how to sharpen their aim and that their goal is to get a tight grouping--bullseye is not as important as getting a grouping and learning how the sight translates to where you strike the paper. Students seem to tense up and get nervous again when theyre trying to figure out why their aim is off. I'll even let a student go one-handed (free arm behind the small of their back) which makes them way worse, then return them to two hands on a pistol after a couple rounds to snap them out of that hand-shudder problem everyone has.

If you focus their attention and keep them behind the gun, make them show you how to clear it, load one round, fire it, load it again, clear it, reload it, fire a round, load a whole mag... how to make the gun safe and step away from the firing line, etc... the idiot next door with the cannon won't be a problem.


I take newb guests to South Philly most of the time which is a tiny indoor range, very cramped, and there's ALWAYS someone in there with high powered shit, sometimes more than one lane is like that and usually with multiple people. I just up it by bringing my toys out and letting the newb graduate up until we get bored.

Newbs always love the shotgun the most. Goes boom, super-easy to deal with, has the pop safety that kids remember from BB guns, and you have to be Stevie Wonder to not hit center mass with the paper down at 45'.



If you're going to bring her out again---don't use cans for your ears. Especially the cans that the range hands out to guests. The ear padding is usually worn, doesn't REALLY cover the ears that well, and doesn't actually deaden the sound.

The best ears, and I use them all the time, is the reusable plastic earbuds that you shove into the ear canal. Not the disposable collapsy foam ones.. the flexible plastic ones that quickly shove into the ears and usually come with a plastic cord so you don't lose them. This seems to be the most effective at killing the high pitched part of the compression wave. It's the high noises and not so much the low frequency part of gunfire noise that really gets people flinching.



Another thing I've tried with first timers is the Dirty Bird targets.... these things are AWESOME especially with .45ACP because the target strike shows up beautifully at any distance. I try to get the student to look "thru" the barrel as they squeeze , check their aim and then ask them to focus on the paper, not on the sight, squeeze, now see where you hit? Take a couple more shots just at the paper, stare past the gunsight and try to make the shots move in the direction you want. Now go back to the rear sight and line it up by the book... works every time on my 1911. Have yet to have a noob not hit dead center trying that. When they can do that, I'll swap out to the Battleship dirty bird targets and then play battleship.
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#4
ArcticSplash;154294 Wrote:New people flinch for about 5 minutes in a busy indoor gun range. The easiest way to get them to relax is to just talk to them for a while--they're more focused on what you're saying the pop-pop-chikchikBOOM-pop going off all around them finally turns into white noise.

By quieting things down and trying to move her away from the other action I think you just made it worse.

I've taken noobs to shoot 9mm and graduate to .30-06 and 12GA on their first trip; never had a noob yet who didn't get a clear feel for what they're doing about halfway through.


I try not to bury so much body position guidance into a first-timer or even correct their aim... I'll let them go through a couple mags first to get used to the recoil and then show a noob how to sharpen their aim and that their goal is to get a tight grouping--bullseye is not as important as getting a grouping and learning how the sight translates to where you strike the paper. Students seem to tense up and get nervous again when theyre trying to figure out why their aim is off.

If you focus their attention and keep them behind the gun, make them show you how to clear it, load one round, fire it, load it again, clear it, reload it, fire a round, load a whole mag... how to make the gun safe and step away from the firing line, etc... the idiot next door with the cannon won't be a problem.


I take newb guests to South Philly most of the time which is a tiny indoor range, very cramped, and there's ALWAYS someone in there with high powered shit, sometimes more than one lane is like that and usually with multiple people. I just up it by bringing my toys out and letting the newb graduate up until we get bored.

Newbs always love the shotgun the most. Goes boom, super-easy to deal with, has the pop safety that kids remember from BB guns, and you have to be Stevie Wonder to not hit center mass with the paper down at 45'.

There is a big difference between someone who has never been around guns and is shooting for the first time and someone who has been programmed to hate guns and actually fears them in the same way someone fears needles for example. I was amazed we even got her to pull the trigger at all. I also intentionally selected a weeknight to go BECAUSE it would be mostly cleared out for this very reason. Getting next to a moron like that was exactly what I was hoping to avoid. She was still shaking a little bit on the way back out into the shop it wasn't a "first five minutes" deal.

As an aside, we did have one other very significant win that I neglected to mention. Surprise surprise! She preferred shooting a tactical railed Sig 226 in 9mm with a laser and extended mag over an old zero frills Smith & Wesson Model 10 .38SPL. When I unzipped the cases and she saw the Sig with it's rail attachments after seeing the revolver, she said, "See? Now why on Earth do you need something like that...THAT...THING... when you have that revolver?", "Isn't 6 shots enough?". She actually chose to start with the .38 (with wad cutters) because the Sig was "too scary looking" After shooting both though she said it was easier to aim without the super heavy DA trigger pull and handle as well as reload, the only issue she had was with pulling the 15lb recoil spring back all the way and not riding it all the way home, which was a habit that it took some time to break my wife of as well.

Again though, the scary looking tactical pistol ended up being the one she preferred to shoot and had an easier time manipulating. Color me surprised Rolleyes! It never ceases to amaze me how from the minute you take an anti shooting one time, the foaming at the mouth hysteria hand hatred begins to melt right before your eyes. Lets just hope she takes the bait back to her nest and poisons the rest of the colony of her anti circle with reality instead of hysteria lol.
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#5
So what kind of gun are people with average dicks supposed to shoot? And what about those with monster sized dicks? We've established people with tiny dicks shoot .500 S&W Revolvers, as well as Desert Eagles.

Somewhere I missed the official gun to dick ratio chart. And are there different ones? Since liberals claim that anyone who likes guns and--especially--carries one on their person to protect against "bad guys" must have the teeniest dicks of all, they must have a different version than you do. Newer? Older? Again, an official one with ISO standards would likely settle the matter.

Gun ranges are loud. Very loud. You will hear loud guns, because loud guns exist and people buy them. If people buy them, they want to shoot them. Pretty sure that's not unusual.

So before you took this anti there, why is she anti? Was she raped at gunpoint? Did she experience a traumatic event as a child and the loud sound of the gunfire--without ear protection--terrified her? Surely you didn't just say "Hey, guns aren't bad. Here...come with us I'll show you" without broaching the matter beyond "No, you gotta see for yourself" after some amount of time spent convincing her.

I would have to ask, to this anti-gunner you're educating, did you say something like "some people are rude, they can see its distracting you" or did you say "that asshole with that goddam too big gun, he must have a tiny dick or something"?

I ask, because I'm curious if you pointed out what you perceived as rudeness, or solidified her preconceived notion that people simply shouldn't own certain kinds of guns because they're "too big" or "too loud".

When you factor in the noise, her "surprise" at how quick you can burn through a 21 round mag, and you making a point of bringing attention to and pointing out the 'careless' person with a large pistol simply firing it at a range (I can only assume he was waving it around, twirling it, shooting through is zipper and all that...licking the bullet before it went in, etc...because simply firing a large calibur pistol at a gun range isn't really careless) you may have done more to solidify her anti position, and better argue it with personal experience. In fact, because you made such a big deal in front of her about it, and no doubt talked about him on the ride home, you very well may now be her gun owning friend who thinks people shouldn't be allowed to have certain guns.

Congrats?
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#6
I'll give you a more complete response when I get home but let me put it to you this way. When you go to an airport bathroom at say 1 AM in the morning when there are like 6 free urinals in the row with one guy at the far end... Do you always pick the one right next to the guy who is already there and proceed to moan and groan maybe get some good creepy eye contact in there XD as you relieve yourself or are you a normal person who gives other people a little bit of a buffer zone rather than having to set up right on top of them? Conversely if I'm bringing new shooters to a range having a good time I'm not going to intentionally setup right next to the guy trying to use a benchrest gun or the guy with the notebook experimenting with handloads or doing some really percision shooting where they clearly don't want to be interrupted if I can help it. If it was a Saturday morning and the place is packed then I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But I intentionally picked an off time so it wouldn't be packed on purpose.
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#7
Emoticon;154309 Wrote:I'll give you a more complete response when I get home but let me put it to you this way. When you go to an airport bathroom at say 1 AM in the morning when there are like 6 free urinals in the row with one guy at the far end... Do you always pick the one right next to the guy who is already there and proceed to moan and groan maybe get some good creepy eye contact in there XD as you relieve yourself or are you a normal person who gives other people a little bit of a buffer zone rather than having to set up right on top of them?

I get that aspect, trust me. There is no doubt in my mind that he was rude plopping right next to you. But I tend to avoid people as much as possible in public settings, I'm definitely the 'buffer' guy. Very pro-buffer.

However, what you said about him, what he was shooting, and his level of responsibility will resonate with an anti far more than him choosing the lane next to you.

If you don't win her over completely to the pro-gun side, you have given her more "ammunition" about the irresponsibility and inconsiderate nature of gun owners than that dude could have. Based upon what you said, more than his actions. Guaranteed, she will put more weight onto what you said about him and what he should/shouldn't be shooting because she knows you, and your opinion regarding him and what he was shooting will resonate with far more importance because she knows you and would likely respect your opinion on the matter. ESPECIALLY if it reinforces the "guns are bad, and stupid people have them which is why more regulation and restriction, not less" point of view most anti's come to the table with.

I raise this only because how YOU (or anyone else) handles a douchebag at the range while trying to teach a newbie--especially an anti--generally holds far more weight than the douchbag does.

In the mind of an anti, what's the difference between a "teeny prick idiot" firing a big revolver and a guy shooting .22's out of a black AR 15 or AK-47? There isn't one.

If you're just venting here--I totally get it. Vent away. I agree with much of the vent. I don't get the penile comparison thing which is why I was giving you a hard time about it in jest, but I get the annoyance factor. The rest of my post, however, in how you conducted the matter and what you said with her in earshot in relation to the same was serious.

Likewise, knowing the motivation of an anti being an anti before you take them out to the range. You can't try to argue your point, let alone convince someone of anything, if you don't know what's really at the root of why they think what they do.
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#8
BTW: if you Google "gun to dick ratio chart" this thread is #4 on the results...
NRA (Life), GOA, FOAC (Life), NAGR, AMGOA

RocketFoot's Minion since 09-07-2012
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#9
Well, Im an experienced shooter of all kinds of rounds, but the last time I went to the Firing Line in Whitehall (which has been a few years now because too many customers hold their guns sideways and muzzle the fuck out of everyone because there is NO RSO), some dude started thundering away with a 454 casul. Fucking hell did that give me a headache. Yet this same range didnt let me shoot my 5.7. I wound up leaving, because the ridiculous hammering of that freight train with a pistol grip was just too damned intense indoors.
tolerance for failure meter... LOW
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#10
A guy shoots a .500 S&W, so he must be compensating for having a small dick. Cogratulations, you just used the Moms Demand Action playbook rule #2. Men like shooting guns must have small wangs. What about women? Molly likes shooting 1911's, does that mean she has small penis envy?

This is the stupidest thing I've read on this forum in about a month. Your bathroom stall analogy isn't a good analogy, either.

As far as your wife's friend's feelings go: why should anyone but her give a fuck about them? Dude brought his gun to shoot, so why not shoot it? Are you saying we now have to consider if a particular gun may frighten someone....at a FUCKING GUN RANGE?

"Gee, I was gonna test out this Razorback today, but 10mm are so loud, I don't want to scare anyone by mistake. Guess I'll just leave it home."

Yeah...no. Fuck that nonsense. Guns go >BOOM< for a reason. If your wife's friend can't handle that, tell her to pop some Dramamine or smoke a joint or something to chill the fuck out. Some guy shooting a noisy gun isn't reinforcing anything in her mind, she's doing that herself.
Unbanned since September 2012.
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