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Being asked to leave....
#1
I understand that if you are on private property and if you're asked to leave it is a wise idea to because of the charges that can follow if not... But what if you're asked to leave from somewhere like Rutters/Giant/etc. Say the nobody cashier tells you to cover it up or leave or if not they say they are going to call the cops.

I have a "acquaintance" who works at a gas station and she told be to cover it up it was making her nervous...! I did because I have to associate with her through friends and wasn't the time to "try" and educate her. She is a younger girl, hard headed and quite frankly a bitch . And I feel if I do happen to be in there again while she is working she might make a stink about it.

Question, Her being really "nobody" to the store besides a cashier do I have to leave if she tells me to? Got to remember this is 3rd shift and there isn't always a manager there to ASK for.
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#2
They're an agent of the company, so yes.

Justin
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#3
Condescending much? Now cashiers are nobody? As employees, they're agents of the owner, actually. Why would the locations you listed be different than anywhere else? Private property is private property. As long as you're a guest there, you're nobody as far as rights are concerned. Not the other way around.
"As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God, protect my sweet ride."
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#4
Yes, they can call the police and have you arrested for trespassing for anything if they've asked you to leave and your refuse. They are an agent of the land owner. If I don't know the store or corporate policy, I'll tell them I'm leaving and ask if it's corporate policy or that person's opinion. If I know their request violates the corporate policy, I will explain that while walking out, and get the peon's name to report to corporate in the morning.

Either way, you get in trouble if you don't leave. If you don't know the policy, your next step is to call or email corporate to ask the policy and explain what happened. If they say their policy is to follow federal and local laws, you might ask that they push that training from the top down, so other patrons aren't asked to leave. If you can get a person's name and title at HQ that you can refer the next peon that asks you to leave to, and tell the peon that you'll let that HQ person know that the person refused to honor the corporate policy, the peon might reconsider.

Even if armed with the corporate policy, if the peon onsite tells you to leave, you have to, even if the corporate policy says otherwise. The onsite person can refuse service to anyone, so they can call the cops if you don't leave and tell them it's because you were threatening them (or anything they want). Take it up with your corporate contact, and you're unlikely to see that peon again.

ETA: For clarification, by HQ, I mean someone at the company's corporate head quarters. I've found that top-down is the best way to get changes made.
TheWolff, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#5
JustinHEMI;18352 Wrote:They're an agent of the company, so yes.

Justin

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#6
I'm going to go partially the other way here. Not all employees are empowered to act as an "agent of the owner" or to set policy.

Now that said you don't necessarily have any way of knowing this at the point of confrontation. In a gas station, only employee there I'd probably comply or better yet leave. A larger store that I would have an expectation of a Manager on site. I don't think asking for a Manager is inappropriate.

Even getting a Manager won't always get you the right answer as we've seen in Walmart, Lowes, etc type threads.
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#7
JustinHEMI;18352 Wrote:They're an agent of the company, so yes.

Justin

This. It doesn't matter if they are a 25 year CEO about to retire or the new one-4hr-shift nighttime janitor. If they are an agent of the property owner (so employee of, or leasing (i.e. Walmart), or even acting on behalf of (i.e. contract security), they can legally ask you to leave pursuant to the trespassing laws.
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#8
mikeb0;19081 Wrote:I'm going to go partially the other way here. Not all employees are empowered to act as an "agent of the owner" or to set policy.

Now that said you don't necessarily have any way of knowing this at the point of confrontation. In a gas station, only employee there I'd probably comply or better yet leave. A larger store that I would have an expectation of a Manager on site. I don't think asking for a Manager is inappropriate.

Even getting a Manager won't always get you the right answer as we've seen in Walmart, Lowes, etc type threads.

Which employees are not empowered to act as agents of the owners relative to Pa trespassing law?
"As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God, protect my sweet ride."
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#9
The cart chaser at walmart could tell you to leave the premises and you would have been given notification of trespass. Unless someone up the food chain contradicts him, continuing to remain is defiant trespass.
3503(b)(1)(i):

§ 3503. Criminal trespass.
(a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he:
(i) enters, gains entry by subterfuge or
surreptitiously remains in any building or occupied
structure or separately secured or occupied portion
thereof; or
(ii) breaks into any building or occupied structure
or separately secured or occupied portion thereof.
(2) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) is a felony of
the third degree, and an offense under paragraph (1)(ii) is
a felony of the second degree.
(3) As used in this subsection:
"Breaks into." To gain entry by force, breaking,
intimidation, unauthorized opening of locks, or through
an opening not designed for human access.
(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains
in any place as to which notice against trespass is given
by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or
reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed
to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law
or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention
at each entrance of school grounds that visitors are
prohibited without authorization from a designated
school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave
school grounds as communicated by a school, center or
program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement
officer.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense
under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third
degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally
communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other
authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v)
constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it
is a summary offense. (b.1) Simple trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains
in any place for the purpose of:
(i) threatening or terrorizing the owner or occupant
of the premises;
(ii) starting or causing to be started any fire
upon the premises; or
(iii) defacing or damaging the premises.
(2) An offense under this subsection constitutes a
summary offense. (b.2) Agricultural trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so he:
(i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other
open lands when such lands are posted in a manner
prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the
person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner
manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine
domestic animals; or
(ii) enters or remains on any agricultural or other
open lands and defies an order not to enter or to leave
that has been personally communicated to him by the owner
of the lands or other authorized person.
(2) An offense under this subsection shall be graded
as follows:
(i) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) constitutes
a misdemeanor of the third degree and is punishable by
imprisonment for a term of not more than one year and a
fine of not less than $250.
(ii) An offense under paragraph (1)(ii) constitutes
a misdemeanor of the second degree and is punishable by
imprisonment for a term of not more than two years and
a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.
(3) For the purposes of this subsection, the phrase
"agricultural or other open lands" shall mean any land on
which agricultural activity or farming as defined in section
3309 (relating to agricultural vandalism) is conducted or
any land populated by forest trees of any size and capable
of producing timber or other wood products or any other land
in an agricultural security area as defined in the act of
June 30, 1981 (P.L.128, No.43), known as the Agricultural
Area Security Law, or any area zoned for agricultural use. (b.3) Agricultural biosecurity area trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if the person does any
of the following:
(i) Enters an agricultural biosecurity area, knowing
that the person is not licensed or privileged to do so.
(ii) Knowingly or recklessly fails to perform
reasonable measures for biosecurity that by posted notice
are required to be performed for entry to the
agricultural biosecurity area.
(2) It is a defense to prosecution under paragraph
(1)(ii) that:
(i) no reasonable means or method was available to
perform the measures that the posted notice required to
be performed for entry to the agricultural biosecurity
area;
(ii) entry is made in response to a condition within
the agricultural biosecurity area that the person
reasonably believes to be a serious threat to human or
animal health as necessitating immediate entry to the
agricultural biosecurity area; or
(iii) entry is made under exigent circumstances by
a law enforcement officer to:
(A) pursue and apprehend a suspect of criminal
conduct reasonably believed by the officer to be
present within the agricultural biosecurity area;
or
(B) prevent the destruction of evidence of
criminal conduct reasonably believed by the officer
to be located within the agricultural biosecurity
area.
(3) (i) Except as set forth in subparagraph (iii), an
offense under paragraph (1)(i) constitutes a misdemeanor
of the third degree.
(ii) Except as set forth in subparagraph (iii), an
offense under paragraph (1)(ii) constitutes a summary
offense.
(iii) If an offense under paragraph (1) causes
damage to or death of an animal or plant within an
agricultural biosecurity area, the offense constitutes
a misdemeanor of the first degree.
(4) For purposes of this subsection, the terms
"agricultural biosecurity area" and "posted notice" shall
have the meanings given to them in 3 Pa.C.S. § 2303 (relating
to definitions). © Defenses.--It is a defense to prosecution under this
section that:
(1) a building or occupied structure involved in an
offense under subsection (a) of this section was abandoned;
(2) the premises were at the time open to members of
the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions
imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or
(3) the actor reasonably believed that the owner of the
premises, or other person empowered to license access
thereto, would have licensed him to enter or remain. (d) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "school
grounds" means any building of or grounds of any elementary or
secondary publicly funded educational institution, any
elementary or secondary private school licensed by the
Department of Education, any elementary or secondary parochial
school, any certified day-care center or any licensed preschool
program.
(June 23, 1978, P.L.497, No.76, eff. 60 days; Oct. 27, 1995,
P.L.334, No.53, eff. 60 days; Dec. 3, 1998, P.L.933, No.121,
eff. imd.; Oct. 2, 2002, P.L.806, No.116, eff. imd.; Nov. 23,
2010, P.L.1360, No.125, eff. imd.)
2010 Amendment. Act 125 added subsec. (b.3). 2002 Amendment. Act 116 amended subsec. (b) and added
subsec. (d). 1998 Amendment. Act 121 added subsec. (b.2). 1995 Amendment. Act 53 added subsec. (b.1). 1978 Amendment. Act 76 amended subsec. (a). Cross References. Section 3503 is referred to in sections
2710, 3311, 6105 of this title; section 2303 of Title 3
(Agriculture); section 2314 of Title 34 (Game); section 3573
of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure).
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

ETA* I changed the subsection to (i).
headcase, bitch-slapping gun myth perpetuators since 2006.
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#10
I would see no problem if someone on the lower end of the pay scale asks you to leave in asking to speak to the manager on duty about it, especially if you know that what the person is telling you is contrary to what you know about their policy.

We, as a group, know that a good many store's policy is to follow state law, so if the cart boy tells you to leave because he just don't like guns, then I'd request to speak to the manager to have it resolved.
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