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California gun parts store refuses to turn over customer list to federal officials
#1
Quote:California gun parts store refuses to turn over customer list to federal officials

The owner of a California store that sells gun parts to build rifles from scratch is refusing to turn over his customer list to federal officials.

Dimitrios Karras, owner of Ares Armor in Oceanside, told Fox5SanDiego.com that Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents are investigating his business because it sells AR-15 lower receivers, which contain the gun's operating parts.

The company sold thousands of 80 percent receivers in with colors showing where the customer can drill, making it easier and cheaper to build. The ATF said the sales are illegal and demanded the company turn over the products and names of customers who purchased them, according to the report.

“They said either give us these 5,000 names or we are coming in and taking pretty much anything – which is a huge privacy concern and something we are not willing to do,” Karras told the station.

Karras’s attorney arranged for ATF agents to pick up the receivers on Wednesday, but Karras said he will not comply with turning over the customer list.

"They were going to search all of our facilities and confiscate our computer and pretty much shut our business down,” Karras said. “The government invades our privacy on a daily basis and everyone thinks its ok."

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#2
Feeling slight relief over procrastinating doing the 80% lower thing. I have a feeling this is not going to end pretty.
The law? The law is a human institution...
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#3
Its nice to see that there are still people with balls. I hope he sticks to his guns and doesnt back down. This gov is way out of control and it needs to stop.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#4
ATF raid on them for not doing anything illegal.

http://easybakegunclub.com/news/4811/ATF...ydIfYWcB8G

http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-accu...ning-order

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBVzsfF_wIM
If God didn't intend us to have guns why did he give us a trigger finger?
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#5
MrBi11;138356 Wrote:ATF raid on them for not doing anything illegal.

http://easybakegunclub.com/news/4811/ATF...ydIfYWcB8G

http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-accu...ning-order

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBVzsfF_wIM
They look like fucking robocops.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#6
What is even more disturbing is the opinion of the ATF.

http://www.examiner.com/article/warrant-...estigation

(my bold)
Quote:Also included in the release were links to the indictment and the search warrant package, the latter providing evidence of an investigative connection on page 86, where an April 12, 2013 letter from Debra S. Satowiak, Chief, Firearms and Explosives Industry Division, to Jason Davis, attorney for Ares Armor Metal Works, LLC, advised that a Federal Firearms License is required for “a business premises at which, for a fee, it makes available a computer numeric control (CNC) machine, tools, equipment, and instructions to persons who bring in castings or raw materials for the purpose of creating firearms.”
The Second Amendment does not GIVE us the right. It tells the gov they can not infringe our right.
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#7
If it isn't a receiver it isn't a firearm.... WTF is the atf's problem?
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#8
ExcelToExcel;138366 Wrote:If it isn't a receiver it isn't a firearm.... WTF is the atf's problem?

Here's some more information, but yes, I agree with you.

Quote:Despite Restraining Order, ATF Raids Ares Armor Over Plastic Parts

Last week Ares Armor, a company that sells firearms parts in San Diego, obtained a restraining order against the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The restraining order was approved by Federal Judge Janis L. Sammartino and a federal raid of the business was prevented. ATF planned on raiding the company in order to gain access to a list containing more than 5,000 customer names. The customers on the list had purchased a plastic or polymer lower receiver from EP Armory, a part that is used to build rifles legally at home. The metal version of the receiver is legal due to being stamped with a serial number.

ATF and DOJ argue the plastic versions of the receivers are illegal because they don't have serial numbers, even though they are the exact same part simply made of different materials. In this case ATF considers receivers firearms, not simply firearm's parts. In past cases and situations, ATF has determined these parts are not firearms. Here is DOJ's argument:

Plaintiff Lycurgan Inc, dba Ares Armor (“Ares Armor”) is part of ATF’s investigation because it is in possession of approximately 6,000 of these unserialized AR-15 lower receivers. Further, Ares Armor is not a federal firearms licensee, so it cannot legally engage in the business of dealing in these firearms, let alone ones that do not bear the required manufacturer’s mark and serial number.

Over the weekend and under pressure from the Department of Justice Judge Sammartino reversed the restraining order and heavily armed ATF agents raided the company in full tactical gear. Most of the raid was caught on video and ATF confiscated materials (plastic receivers) and the customer list Ares Armor was trying to protect. Before the raid, undercover and plain clothed ATF agents were reportedly questioning customers outside of the store.

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#9
But they are not lowers, they are just hunks of metal and the ATF is full of it.


Philadelphia Patriot;138367 Wrote:
ExcelToExcel;138366 Wrote:If it isn't a receiver it isn't a firearm.... WTF is the atf's problem?

Here's some more information, but yes, I agree with you.

Quote:Despite Restraining Order, ATF Raids Ares Armor Over Plastic Parts

Last week Ares Armor, a company that sells firearms parts in San Diego, obtained a restraining order against the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The restraining order was approved by Federal Judge Janis L. Sammartino and a federal raid of the business was prevented. ATF planned on raiding the company in order to gain access to a list containing more than 5,000 customer names. The customers on the list had purchased a plastic or polymer lower receiver from EP Armory, a part that is used to build rifles legally at home. The metal version of the receiver is legal due to being stamped with a serial number.

ATF and DOJ argue the plastic versions of the receivers are illegal because they don't have serial numbers, even though they are the exact same part simply made of different materials. In this case ATF considers receivers firearms, not simply firearm's parts. In past cases and situations, ATF has determined these parts are not firearms. Here is DOJ's argument:

Plaintiff Lycurgan Inc, dba Ares Armor (“Ares Armor”) is part of ATF’s investigation because it is in possession of approximately 6,000 of these unserialized AR-15 lower receivers. Further, Ares Armor is not a federal firearms licensee, so it cannot legally engage in the business of dealing in these firearms, let alone ones that do not bear the required manufacturer’s mark and serial number.

Over the weekend and under pressure from the Department of Justice Judge Sammartino reversed the restraining order and heavily armed ATF agents raided the company in full tactical gear. Most of the raid was caught on video and ATF confiscated materials (plastic receivers) and the customer list Ares Armor was trying to protect. Before the raid, undercover and plain clothed ATF agents were reportedly questioning customers outside of the store.

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#10
ExcelToExcel;138370 Wrote:But they are not lowers, they are just hunks of metal and the ATF is full of it.

They're actually hunks of out of spec polymer. It looks like the ATF is on some sort of fishing expedition. They also raided EP Armory, the maker of the 80% lower, first.

http://www.thebangswitch.com/ep-armory-r...y-the-atf/

Quote:News broke yesterday that the BATF had raided the business premises of EP Armory and the home of it’s owner, Chris Cook. News reports are sparse as the ATF is being fairly tight lipped about the nature of their investigation. Local news sources are reporting that the ATF is on the hunt for “illegal weapons”. As of this writing the ATF has now allowed the store front to reopen for business. - See more at: http://www.thebangswitch.com/ep-armory-r...CEuPm.dpuf
fttfbass, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Oct 2012.
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