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California gun parts store refuses to turn over customer list to federal officials
#21
gascolator;138654 Wrote:ARES also sells an "80%" 1911 frame.

Is anyone surprised that ATF is trying to close this "loophole?"

In a place that requires registration of the firearm, this could be a real pain in the ass. One wonders why in the hell they don't just serialize them.

^true........but they're still not breaking the law.
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#22
gascolator;138654 Wrote:ARES also sells an "80%" 1911 frame.

Is anyone surprised that ATF is trying to close this "loophole?"

In a place that requires registration of the firearm, this could be a real pain in the ass. One wonders why in the hell they don't just serialize them.

Why would you buy it then?

The point is to have an untraceable, unregistered, legal firearm, that you built yourself.
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#23
Looks like the ATF's Possible Future Crimes division is fully operational.
NRA Life Member, NRA Certified Instructor:  HFS, Pistol, Rifle, PPIH,PPOH
Suarez Combat Arms Instructor School
Admit nothing.  Deny everything. Demand proof.
If we lie to the government, it's a crime. If the government lies to the people, it's called politics.
Paying for welfare is slavery.
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#24
goofin;138616 Wrote:but to register them once you finish them you need to put a serial number on them. to do so you need to have a manufacturing license or fill out a form 1. you know there are people who will not do so.

What are you talking about? This post is full of so much misinformation it's making my head spin.
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#25
In many regulatory environments, there are regional differences in interpretations of those regulations. The FAA's FSDO's (Flight Standard District Offices) are notorious for being inconsistent.

It sort of looks like the company had built its business on a gray area of the law that was apt to go a different way at some point.

I would dispute that these receivers aren't in essence complete lowers which require everything that goes along with that in law. Depending upon the fab method, drilling those holes seems like a lot less than 20% of the total effort, other than that they turn it into hand-work.
gascolator, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2012.
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#26
One thing I don't see posted anywhere is, from my understanding (reading calguns etc), is Ares Armor was selling the 80% lowers and hosting 'build parties' allowing people (for a charge) to use their CNC machines already set-up with jigs & programming, in the same location.

So effectively you would walk in, pay for the 80% lower, set it in a jig and push the start button then walk out with a completed lower.

Building them yourself for yourself requires no licensing, permits or serial numbers, you can not build them to sell (without a SOT). It is acceptable to sell without any further serial numbers or 'permissions' as long as your intent when it was built is to keep it yourself. (not a good idea to do to often)

The big question is when does it go from tool rental to manufacture. If the build parties and sales were in different locations it wouldn't have caused the issues, plus are you really doing it yourself when all you need to do is push a button (grey areas).
If God didn't intend us to have guns why did he give us a trigger finger?
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