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College Allows Transgender Man to Expose Himself to Young Girls
#41
JustinHEMI;34124 Wrote:
Camper;34084 Wrote:Why would he when he'll be branded 'homophobic' by those who support the GLBT movement?

I support the GLBT movement, and I agreed that this is wrong.

Try not painting with such a wide brush, you're better than that.

I should have been more specific--he'll be called homophobic by those who are fanatical, which tend to be the same people who instantly cry that you're homophobic if you do not support gay marriage because these people throw accusations of homophobia at anyone who does anything other than clap and cheer for someone trying to exercise the same liberties as heterosexuals or the gender to which the individual feels they belong in.

Right away, the transgender man is dragging out the same arguments the GLBT community uses for each and every 'slight' they feel, by comparing it to the Civil Rights Movement:

Quote:“This is not 1959 Alabama,” Francis told the television station. “We don’t call police for drinking from the wrong water fountain.”

See? You cannot deny that there is an entire subset of the GLBT community which would parrot the exact same line.

Now, I've been very clear from the start that I do not support gay marriage, because I do not believe homosexual relationships and heterosexual relationships are the 'same'. I personally am not opposed to civil unions for homosexual couples--which is not the same as being in favor of them, so my wording there is intentional--because there are valid legal concerns that I believe they should be allowed to partake in as it pertains to their domestic partnership contract.

For that, I'm no doubt branded (by a great many, even some at this site, no doubt) a homophobic despite my having no fear or hatred of homosexuals.

So, IMHO, anyone irrational enough to brand someone 'homophobic' for having a position of disagreement with their position, would also brand a transgender man who is choosing to live his life as a woman, despite still having the anatomy of a man, homophobic for trying to interfere in their life and control their behavior or force THEM (the transgendered) into an uncomfortable situation.

In fact, we have women here have clearly stated they do not feel comfortable with a man in their changing room. Are you going to say that you believe that a man--who acts and feels as though she is a woman, and is living his life as one--would not feel uncomfortable in a room full of men who are men? Obviously, this person is using the woman's room, which clearly shows that they do NOT feel comfortable in the men's room.

See how cloudy it all gets once you say on one hand that transgenders demand to be treated like the sex they want to be, or feel they are--as is the position of the GLBT movement--and then that position is tested in real life, where it directly affects other people?
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#42
Camper;34147 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;34124 Wrote:I support the GLBT movement, and I agreed that this is wrong.

Try not painting with such a wide brush, you're better than that.

I should have been more specific--he'll be called homophobic by those who are fanatical, which tend to be the same people who instantly cry that you're homophobic if you do not support gay marriage because these people throw accusations of homophobia at anyone who does anything other than clap and cheer for someone trying to exercise the same liberties as heterosexuals or the gender to which the individual feels they belong in.

Right away, the transgender man is dragging out the same arguments the GLBT community uses for each and every 'slight' they feel, by comparing it to the Civil Rights Movement:

Quote:“This is not 1959 Alabama,” Francis told the television station. “We don’t call police for drinking from the wrong water fountain.”

See? You cannot deny that there is an entire subset of the GLBT community which would parrot the exact same line.

Now, I've been very clear from the start that I do not support gay marriage, because I do not believe homosexual relationships and heterosexual relationships are the 'same'. I personally am not opposed to civil unions for homosexual couples--which is not the same as being in favor of them, so my wording there is intentional--because there are valid legal concerns that I believe they should be allowed to partake in as it pertains to their domestic partnership contract.

For that, I'm no doubt branded (by a great many, even some at this site, no doubt) a homophobic despite my having no fear or hatred of homosexuals.

So, IMHO, anyone irrational enough to brand someone 'homophobic' for having a position of disagreement with their position, would also brand a transgender man who is choosing to live his life as a woman, despite still having the anatomy of a man, homophobic for trying to interfere in their life and control their behavior or force THEM (the transgendered) into an uncomfortable situation.

In fact, we have women here have clearly stated they do not feel comfortable with a man in their changing room. Are you going to say that you believe that a man--who acts and feels as though she is a woman, and is living his life as one--would not feel uncomfortable in a room full of men who are men? Obviously, this person is using the woman's room, which clearly shows that they do NOT feel comfortable in the men's room.

See how cloudy it all gets once you say on one hand that transgenders demand to be treated like the sex they want to be, or feel they are--as is the position of the GLBT movement--and then that position is tested in real life, where it directly affects other people?


I think you put too much literal weight on the word "homophobic."

However, we're not here to argue about gay marriage.

I agree with you, that he's a man at this point, whether he feels he is or is not. I know that people can be born "in the wrong body," but until that body is corrected, they should use the appropriate facilities, especially if children are involved, as in this case.

I will stand and fight for his/her rights to be the person they were born to be, but there are lines, and I feel this crosses that line.

Justin
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#43
I'm not homophobic but I am a bit creeped out by the over the top types like Perez Hilton. It's creepy in the same way Johnny Depp is creepy. I am mildy Gallophobic though lol
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#44
I just watched a video with this he/she, and I'm not convinced that he is really mentally a she. Of course, I can't tell someone who or what they are, but I know quite a few T's that have gone all the way with the surgery, and I can say that he doesn't seem like them at all. It is hard to put into words, but you can tell that you're talking to a woman/man that was born a man/woman. IMO, he is just a gay man that put on lipstick and is claiming to be a "woman on the inside" to stir this controversy.

Justin
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#45
Connal;33855 Wrote:You might have skimmed over the part that explains it is a shared locker room, and kids as young as six were there.

Personally, I don't think its appropriate for naked adults of any sex apart from maybe immediate family (ie a mother taking a shower with a daughter young enough to need constant supervision) to be naked in the same room with a 6 year old. This should not be occurring in my mind. I certainly wouldn't want my child exposed to naked strangers regardless of sex.

Camper;34147 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;34124 Wrote:I support the GLBT movement, and I agreed that this is wrong.

Try not painting with such a wide brush, you're better than that.

I should have been more specific--he'll be called homophobic by those who are fanatical, which tend to be the same people who instantly cry that you're homophobic if you do not support gay marriage because these people throw accusations of homophobia at anyone who does anything other than clap and cheer for someone trying to exercise the same liberties as heterosexuals or the gender to which the individual feels they belong in.

Right away, the transgender man is dragging out the same arguments the GLBT community uses for each and every 'slight' they feel, by comparing it to the Civil Rights Movement:

Quote:“This is not 1959 Alabama,” Francis told the television station. “We don’t call police for drinking from the wrong water fountain.”

*SNIP*

See how cloudy it all gets once you say on one hand that transgenders demand to be treated like the sex they want to be, or feel they are--as is the position of the GLBT movement--and then that position is tested in real life, where it directly affects other people?

JustinHEMI;34149 Wrote:
Camper;34147 Wrote:I should have been more specific--he'll be called homophobic by those who are fanatical, which tend to be the same people who instantly cry that you're homophobic if you do not support gay marriage because these people throw accusations of homophobia at anyone who does anything other than clap and cheer for someone trying to exercise the same liberties as heterosexuals or the gender to which the individual feels they belong in.

*SNIP*

In fact, we have women here have clearly stated they do not feel comfortable with a man in their changing room. Are you going to say that you believe that a man--who acts and feels as though she is a woman, and is living his life as one--would not feel uncomfortable in a room full of men who are men? Obviously, this person is using the woman's room, which clearly shows that they do NOT feel comfortable in the men's room.

See how cloudy it all gets once you say on one hand that transgenders demand to be treated like the sex they want to be, or feel they are--as is the position of the GLBT movement--and then that position is tested in real life, where it directly affects other people?


I think you put too much literal weight on the word "homophobic."

However, we're not here to argue about gay marriage.

I agree with you, that he's a man at this point, whether he feels he is or is not. I know that people can be born "in the wrong body," but until that body is corrected, they should use the appropriate facilities, especially if children are involved, as in this case.

I will stand and fight for his/her rights to be the person they were born to be, but there are lines, and I feel this crosses that line.

Justin

The bottom line is there is no way for this to proceed without someone being offended somehow. The trick is just going to be how to minimize the offense. If they force him to change with the men, they'll probably not take kindly to that. If they let him go with the girls you see what happens. If you make it so that he's made to change separate from both he will claim his rights have been violated. Nobody wins here. I think the only options would be to have him show up early and clear out the locker room while this person changes and have someone stand watch or they need to let him change in another closed room separately, or add partitions to the shower area. The least offensive option would be to add a unisex lavatory, but its obviously not worth spending the money for just one person when that money could be more effectively used elsewhere. Either way though like I stated earlier there is no quick and easy hack it off answer to his problem, due to the legal framework we've put around the transgendered issue.

Even if the genitalia is gone do you think that most women would still be comfortable changing in front of a transgendered man? I don't think most women would be comfortable with that. It doesn't matter how much hormone you take its usually pretty obvious whether that person was formerly male by looking at the facial bones and adam's apple.
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#46
Its beyond me why people try to be "different" and then insist on being treated the "same".

Maybe "it" should go just change in a bathroom stall. Why make everyone else feel uncomfortable just because the person chose to be "different"? People are free to make their choices, but they aren't always free to choose the consequences of those choices...and I get sick and tired of everyone else being expected to revolve their habits and beliefs around those other people who make choices that are sometimes out of the ordinary.
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#47
RugerGirl;34542 Wrote:Its beyond me why people try to be "different" and then insist on being treated the "same".

Maybe "it" should go just change in a bathroom stall. Why make everyone else feel uncomfortable just because the person chose to be "different"? People are free to make their choices, but they aren't always free to choose the consequences of those choices...and I get sick and tired of everyone else being expected to revolve their habits and beliefs around those other people who make choices that are sometimes out of the ordinary.

I find it entertaining states spend additional money to offer special meals to prisoners in line with their religious beliefs. The PC business is so out of control its not even funny.
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#48
Emptymag;33589 Wrote:Why doesn't someone just hack that thing off? Problem solved. Sort of.

I'm glad you said "hack" and not "whack".



Emoticon;33804 Wrote:I really resent the fact that these days everyone is trying to portray college students as children.

In this particular case that college locker room is an extension of high schoo, as well as grade school, I'm sure there wouldn't be nearly as much controversy if it was strictly a college locker room. In this case there were very young girls witnessing this spectacle.

IronSight;34057 Wrote:That's part of the problem too, but this nut should never be allowed in there given the current state of his anatomy.

I don't see how the laws on indecent exposure don't cover this, the man is still a man and I don't see any judge or jury saying otherwise (well, sure there might be a few nuts on the bench that would, but the DA needs some stones to bring the case forward anyway.

That's not the only place that there are nuts that shouldn't be there.
*********************

I know several gay people, some of whom were definitely born that way and some whom I strongly suspect made a conscious decision to swing that way. I've known some since childhood and it was obvious before they could have possibly been sexually aware, two are close relatives and others are friends since childhood. I have strong opinions that I'll keep out of this thread but I will state that I think this person is most definitely wrong, and those who allowed and defended the exposing of male genitalia to girls ranging in age from 6 years old to mature women aren't morally or culturally adjusted enough to coexist in our society.
Our culture isn't ready for that, our children are typically sheltered from the sight of genitals of the opposite sex. That's not the case in all cultures or different societies around the world, but here it's been taught to be taboo, therefore creating emotional trauma for those involuntarily exposed to it. In other cultures it's perfectly normal to see naked people of the opposite sex in certain settings. Even nudist camps in this country, but that's voluntary participation, most definitely not the case in this situation.
There are three types of people in the world:
Those who make things happen,
Those who watch things happen,
And those who wonder what happened.
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#49
You know this scenario brings up another interesting concept...How would you guys react to a gay dude checking you out in a locker room? A situation where there is no sexual ambiguity to say he does or doesn't belong in the men's locker room. Should gays be made to use a different locker room? What about a gay female in the women's locker room? I don't advocate the the trans man being in the women's locker room, but I am just exploring this scenario hypothetically. Personally, I don't care for communal locker rooms or showers, I value my privacy too much and I find public places that are always warm and moist bacteria havens are best avoided. I'd just as soon take a shower when I get home, where I don't have to worry about contracting some mysterious fungus, staph, MRSA or flesh eating athletes foot lol.

http://www.menshealth.com/health/killer-locker-room
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#50
Emoticon;34577 Wrote:You know this scenario brings up another interesting concept...How would you guys react to a gay dude checking you out in a locker room? A situation where there is no sexual ambiguity to say he does or doesn't belong in the men's locker room. Should gays be made to use a different locker room? What about a gay female in the women's locker room? I don't advocate the the trans man being in the women's locker room, but I am just exploring this scenario hypothetically. Personally, I don't care for communal locker rooms or showers, I value my privacy too much and I find public places that are always warm and moist bacteria havens are best avoided. I'd just as soon take a shower when I get home, where I don't have to worry about contracting some mysterious fungus, staph, MRSA or flesh eating athletes foot lol.

http://www.menshealth.com/health/killer-locker-room

I'm in agreement with you on the privacy and health issues.
I honestly don't have a problem with gay guys sharing locker rooms with straight guys. (Or gals/gals).
If I were in a communal setting for changing or showering and someone made a pass at me or if I saw someone look at me and get a woody I'd have a problem, but as long as everyone is minding their own business I wouldn't have a problem with gays in the same changing room/shower. Chances are that you wouldn't know who's gay or not anyhow unless it's someone flamboyant or otherwise obvious. You'd be surprised at how many gay people you see on a daily basis. Most of them won't be any more interested in you than you are in them.
There are three types of people in the world:
Those who make things happen,
Those who watch things happen,
And those who wonder what happened.
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