pa2a.org


Share Thread:  
Completely disappointed by S&W
#1
I've posted this on the other forum, but I figured it couldn't hurt to tell y'all here.

----------------------------------------

Based on my father’s experience with S&W, I later obtained an M&P40 for the purposes of home and personal defense due to S&W’s reputation of reliability and service as well.

I enjoyed the M&P40 thoroughly due to its ergonomics, accuracy, low felt recoil, and reliability. It fit my hand significantly better than the Beretta M9 that my unit issues to me, and was much smoother shooting as well. This made it great for the purposes of personal and home defense, and doubled as a competition pistol with local USPSA and IDPA matches. It has served each purpose well with easily over 2,000 rounds through it until recently when it began to show issues with reliability by giving light strikes on primers.

I checked the springs and thought maybe it was just a weak spring that had gone bad from wear. I replaced the sear spring, made sure that the trigger bar and springs to that were in working order, and checked to make sure there wasn't anything that was out of place or put backwards.

At this point, the only two things that weren't factory parts were the APEX sear and front sight post. The only things replaced were springs and a trigger bar with factory parts. Still gave the same exact issues regardless of the ammunition used. Same ammunition was fired flawlessly through other firearms.

I contacted S&W’s customer support on September 10, 2013 regarding this issue and received a reply on September 16, 2013 requesting more information regarding the nature of the problems found with the firearm and the firearm itself. I sent in the information and made sure to note everything about the pistol to include the issues with it and which parts I had replaced with other factory parts.

After responding with the information requested I received no further reply. It wasn’t until calling the customer support number on September 27, 2013 and waiting for over 20 minutes that I was able to find out that the shipping label was never sent to me. I finally received a shipping label to have the firearm sent to S&W on September 30, 2013.

The firearm was shipped on October 2, 2013 and received two days later. I was told that there would be a wait time of approximately 4 weeks, and that I would be contacted if there were any issues. I waited until November 15, 2013 and called the customer service number again, and was told that the firearm was being held and would not be worked on until the billing department received a reply from me due to not being covered by the warranty as the second owner of the pistol. However, no letter or bill had been sent to me between when my firearm was sent in and when I called.

I was later sent a letter with a list of charges, and given the option to service the firearm at the fee charged, or have it returned. The work being charged would be to replace the striker, replace the aftermarket sear, and range testing for a total of $130.54. The parts would only have cost $9, the testing would cost $45, and the labor would cost $63. The striker and the sear, however, are drop in parts that can be swapped/replaced within minutes. I replied in early December, well before the Christmas and New Year’s holidays, stating that I wanted the firearm returned and included my billing information for any necessary charges.

By January 2, 2014 I saw no charges to my account and had not received my firearm. I called the customer service number and waited approximately 45 minutes before receiving a response. The customer service representative, Jason, was unable to provide an answer as to why there were no charges and why I had not received my firearm yet, but he stated that he did not think that I would be charged for return shipping or initial testing, and would call me back by the following Monday, January 6, 2014. I received no phone call.

I sent a letter out by mail on Thursday, January 9th and waited until Wednesday, January 14 before calling the customer service number. When I got an answer from a representative I was reassured that S&W did have my pistol, it was in the "returns" department, but for some reason it was stuck in the system and hasn't been processed to be sent back. He said he would send a runner to find the answer and either he or the runner would get back to me today.

Much to my surprise, I did get a call from them. The gun was, indeed, in their possession. It was in the "charges" department, in a tub, waiting to be shipped over to the mail room where it would then be sent back to me. When I asked if I was going to be charged for anything, they said that I would have already been charged by now if that was the case. This is probably the only thing they did right so far. I'll be expecting my gun by the end of next week.

---------------------------------------------------------

Now the reason I was told I wasn't covered under warranty is because I'm the second owner. Fine, I can handle that. What I'm severely disappointed and disgusted with is that I started asking S&W for help in September and I didn't get much in the way of support until my third email and phone call. And the response I got was a "yes, we can help."

The pistol has been in S&W's possession since October 4, 2013 and no one has contacted me about a single damn thing regarding it. I've received no calls, emails, or letters showing I'd owe them any amount of money for service or asking what I want to do.

I had to remind them about the shipping label after they said they would send one. I had to ask them what was happening with the gun after waiting over a month before being told they forgot to send me an estimate. And then I had to follow up and find out why they hadn't sent my gun back after a month of waiting when I told them to just ship it back to me.

That's pretty poor service and support.

Another disappointment I have is how the pistol seems to have failed with less than 20,000 rounds through it. The work order they sent to show what they would do included replacing the striker assembly and replacing the sear with a factory one. The sear isn't what impacts the primer, it just releases it, and since it's an aftermarket part it seems like it would be standard practice to swap that out before leaving the factory.

The striker assembly seems to have been the culprit, being the first generation striker assembly. Still, that's disconcerting, especially since it was my carry gun. That has serious implications for me if I had to actually use it in a defensive situation. And it's not like the gun was filthy and had debris in the striker sleeve and channel. It was cleaned out thoroughly regularly and kept in good working condition. That means the striker spring cups were dragging somewhere, or the striker itself was worn prematurely.

Either way, not a good thing.

All in all, I'll go with Springfield next time.

[Image: 21122657_10155704889299275_8952212329936901321_o_2.jpg]
Reply
#2
Be glad you didn't have to deal with EAA. Dodgy
NRA Life Member, NRA Certified Instructor:  HFS, Pistol, Rifle, PPIH,PPOH
Suarez Combat Arms Instructor School
Admit nothing.  Deny everything. Demand proof.
If we lie to the government, it's a crime. If the government lies to the people, it's called politics.
Paying for welfare is slavery.
Reply
#3
So I posted a comment onto S&W's Facebook page before sending off a letter to their CEO. I got a reply asking for me to message them the details of what happened. So I start talking to the rep via FB, and the responses I got were all excellent. I got an acknowledgement that the situation was handled poorly on their part, an apology, and asked what would make things right.

So I told him that reviewing internal policies for tracking things is a good start, ensuring that the CS department head knows the situation and that there were multiple failures in the process so it can be addressed, and a new striker so I can get the gun running would be fantastic. The rep told me that his supervisor and the head of CS were well informed and looking into why they dropped the ball (and why no one picked it up again), they're training more CS reps to handle the influx of help tickets, and that I would receive a new striker by Monday. Well, much to my pleasant surprise, the striker came in this past Friday via FedEx.

So I went to the range today to test out the pistol with the new striker assembly in. Ammunition used was a mix of Winchester White Box and reloads. First the WWB was used. Standing, two handed thumbs forward grip, 25 rounds, 10 slow fire and 15 sustained fire. All rounds fed and fired without issue.

The next 25 rounds were reloads. Mixed brass, Remington small pistol primers, Titegroup powder, 180 grain cast lead bullets from Mastercast. 10 rounds with hammer pairs (double tap), 15 rounds sustained fire. All rounds fed and fired without issue.

The last 25 rounds were the same reloads. 15 rounds fired strong hand only, 10 rounds fired weak hand only. Sustained fire for all 25 rounds. All rounds fed and fired without issue.

Upon collecting the brass, the hits on the primers were definitely deeper. The hits looked much closer to what I saw on the test casing that was provided with the pistol, so it appears that the old striker was worn and causing light strikes. The new striker has, so far, fixed those issues.

The new striker also took some of the mush and creep out of the trigger. While it's not crisp like a 1911, it has improved the feel, though it also feels like it's added a .5-1.0 lbs to the trigger as well. This isn't a huge issue, and it still feels like it's around 5-6 lbs, which suits me fine as my carry gun. The reset is still soft, but it's not non-existent. The XDm still feels like it has a better trigger overall, but I'm not displeased with the way my M&P's trigger feels.

So, overall, it seems the gun is fixed. We'll see how she holds up when my local gun club starts putting on USPSA matches and I'll be able to put her through her paces more. 75 rounds doesn't seem like a lot, but she ran just fine even when I loosened up my grip to see if I could get her to fail. I'll hold onto it unless I get a good offer for it, but it doesn't look like I'll be able to afford something new for a while.

My initial experience with S&W's customer service was still horrible. What's helped is receiving an acknowledgement that they did a poor job, an apology, and actual getting help from one of their employees. I'm still leery of their customer service for now, but it seems as though the right people are being notified and they're going to push for improving how they handle things. I wish that this had been smoother from the start, but they did make things right for me in the end, and I'm sure that the rep I spoke with will appreciate the range report I'm going to send in.

[URL="http://imgur.com/a/4HxjN/all"]Photos[/URL]

[Image: 21122657_10155704889299275_8952212329936901321_o_2.jpg]
Reply
#4
I'm glad to hear Smith & Wesson made things right.

I'm a big believer in second chances where malice is not involved. Anyone one (or company) can make a mistake. The best practices and procedures can always go sideways on occasion. It's how the screw up is handled (or not) that reveals someones true character.
Ammunition, it's the new lead bullion. Buy it cheap and stack it deep.
Reply
#5
Wow, that is fucked up, man. It sucks more that own experience with S&W was the complete opposite of yours.

I bought my first carry gun about ten years ago, the Sigma 9VE. I carried it everyday, shot close to ten thousand rounds through it (remember when ammo was cheap and easy to find?), and only gave me trouble towards the end of my ownership.

A few years ago, the mag catch went bad, and it started having failure to feed issues, despite buying new mags, and using ball ammo. I contacted S&W, asked them what I should do. They said to send it back, and to check my mail the next couple of days. Two days later, I got two UPSshipping labels from them, one to send the gun, and one to get it back. I was instructed to disassemble it, box it, head to my nearest UPS store, and send it, so I did.

Exactly fourteen days later, I got it back. Not only did they fix the issue of the bad mag catch, they replaced the entire slide (which was worn and dinged from heavy use), gave it a trigger job, and sent me a free sixteen round mag, with a detailed work order listing the work done.

I was carrying a 1911 at that point, so I ended up trading the Sigma for a .38 snubbie, but I'm sure the gun would still be running fine if I'd kept it.

I'm sorry your experience sucked so hard. Even though my own experience was great, I don't know if I could trust them now.
Unbanned since September 2012.
Reply
#6
Thanks for posting your update.
I learned this a long time ago - if you don't like the answer the person on the other line is telling you, hang up and try again later! I don't mean rudely hang up, i mean end the call (-: This has been true on so many occasions. Also if you do not get an acceptable answer or help, climb up the chain of command. Some times it doesn't help but its good to hear S&W did finally help you to your satisfaction!
Just1more, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
Reply








Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Software by MyBB, © 2002-2015 MyBB Group.
Template by Modogodo Design.