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Elderly may be charged for shooting burglars

Quote:LONG BEACH, Calif. – Police planned Friday to give prosecutors the results of their investigation into an 80-year-old man's fatal shooting of one of two burglars who attacked him when he found them ransacking his home.

Tom Greer, whose collarbone was broken in the assault, told a television station he fired even though the female burglar told him not to shoot because she was pregnant.

The woman's alleged accomplice was being held for investigation of murder and police said Thursday they had yet to decide whether to recommend any charges be brought against the octogenarian homeowner.

"She says, `Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant -- I'm going to have a baby,' and I shot her anyway," Greer told KNBC-TV outside his house.

Long Beach police Chief Jim McDonnell said at a news conference Thursday that the woman, 28-year-old Andrea Miller, did not appear to be pregnant, but an autopsy would determine whether she was.

Quote:Greer had been burglarized three times before and believed the same suspects were responsible.

He returned home shortly after 9 p.m. Tuesday to find the pair in his home. Both suspects attacked him, hitting him with their fists and ultimately "body slamming" him to the floor, breaking his collar bone, McDonnell said.

Miller continued to hit him, McDonnell said, while Adams moved to a safe and began trying to pry it open.

The homeowner was able to get to another room where he grabbed a gun and returned to open fire on the suspects. They fled through the garage and into an alley, and Greer gave chase, firing at them again outside, McDonnell said.

Miller was hit, collapsed in the alley and died at the scene, McDonnell said.

"The lady didn't run as fast as the man, so I shot her in the back twice," Greer told the TV station. "She's dead ... but he got away."

Quote:It will be up to the district attorney to decide whether to charge Greer with a crime, the chief said. Under California law, homeowners can defend themselves if they are in "imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death," he said.
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Although we're rid of another criminal I think unfortunately it's pretty cut and dry here. According to the statements made by the elderly man and what I've read he shot her in the back as she was fleeing. He was not in danger while they were running away from him.
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Mr_Gixxer;150155 Wrote:Although we're rid of another criminal I think unfortunately it's pretty cut and dry here. According to the statements made by the elderly man and what I've read he shot her in the back as she was fleeing. He was not in danger while they were running away from him.

I read another article and seems like the timeline was this:

1) man comes in and sees burglars
2) burglars attack man, shove him, he breaks collarbone
3) man manages to escape to bedroom to get gun
4) man begins to shoot while burglars still in home.
5) burglars begin to flee after shooting begins and he follows them out still shooting

So technically yes he shot at fleeing suspects but just seconds before, he had been attacked, and the first shots were while the burglars were still in the home.

Doesn't sound like the girl was really pregnant btw.....
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According to the man's statements that time line is bullshit. He describes them running and THEN shooting them in the back.
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As I said at Poofa, absent anything but this man's timeline, I vote guilty of manslaughter or murder. I have no sympathy for thugs getting what they deserve when they attack innocent people, but I also don't believe in shooting people in the back when they are fleeing. The mantra is "shoot to stop the threat." Pursuing people outside of your house and shooting them as they flee is not right, IMO.

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I guess that's why we should carry on our person....that would have changed the whole story and possibly avoided a broken collarbone. And criminal charges.
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Back in 1995 a pharmacist shot a robber in the back of the head as he was leaving the drug store, a few miles from where I lived. They never found a gun on the robber. The pharmacist was never charged.

Quote:D.a. Won't Charge Pharmacist For Killing Robber The Robber Said He Had A Gun. That Justified Using Deadly Force, Said Delco District Attorney Ryan.

POSTED: June 03, 1995

A Drexel Hill pharmacist who fatally shot a robber as he was fleeing the pharmacist's drugstore Wednesday will not be charged in the shooting, the Delaware County district attorney said yesterday.

Harry Mason Dunlap's statement to pharmacist Marc R. Alch that he had a gun gave Alch reason to fear for his life and use deadly force, said District Attorney William H. Ryan Jr.

Police said Dunlap, 33, told Alch that he was holding a gun inside a sock before robbing the Shadeland Pharmacy about 9 a.m. Wednesday at Garrett and Shadeland Roads.

Ryan said that Alch, 44, fired a .38-caliber revolver three times before finally hitting Dunlap in the back of the head as he was leaving the pharmacy. No weapon of Dunlap's was found at the scene, police said.

"Alch said he was afraid that Dunlap would turn and shoot at him and given the circumstances, it was reasonable to fear that might happen," Ryan said.

In general, said Ryan, once the threat of bodily injury or death has been made, crime victims are considered to be at risk, even if they are not directly threatened at the moment they use deadly force.

"Today, if anybody comes up to you and says, 'Give me your wallet,' that person is taking the risk that you are going to defend yourself and not be prosecuted afterward," said Ryan.

According to Upper Darby police, the robbery ended what police believe was a one-man crime spree that began more than 30 hours earlier.

Police suspect that Dunlap stole a car from a Ridley Park residence at 1:30 a.m. Tuesday and later that day robbed three 7-Eleven stores in Clifton Heights, Darby Borough and Southwest Philadelphia.

Police also suspect that Dunlap was responsible for two purse snatchings in Haverford on Tuesday afternoon. They said they found items from the purses in the stolen car.

Alch, of Havertown, has owned the Shadeland Pharmacy for seven years. Ryan said Alch told him that he was once held up, with a gun at his head, at a pharmacy he had worked for previously.

Reached at home by telephone, Alch's wife said her husband had no comment on Ryan's decision.

Little is known about Dunlap.

His last known address was in Glenolden, and he had been convicted for a string of minor crimes in that area over the last several years.

Most recently, Dunlap was arrested on charges of forgery and impersonating a public servant in Maple Shade, N.J., in February and on a charge of retail theft in Darby Borough in March, Ryan said.

Dunlap was also arrested on charges of receiving stolen property and theft by deception in Cherry Hill, N.J., in April, Ryan said.
Yeah but this instance is in CA.....
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Never mess with an old person with a gun. They have nothing to lose.

Even if he is charged and convicted there isn't much they can really do to him. Any jail time would effectively be a life sentence so that's not very likely. He'll probably end up on probation with a ankle bracelet.
Ammunition, it's the new lead bullion. Buy it cheap and stack it deep.
I think you have the right to use deadly force to get back large sums of money, IMO.. Rather or not the law sees it that way has no influence on my morality. That being said, she didn't have the cash, he shot the wrong one.

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