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Executive orders and "closeted" gun owners...
#11
The problem with incremental gun control is that you need some sort of public support for any of it to pass. Public support for new gun control is at an all time low. The number of gun owners in this country is skyrocketing. The gun control movement has lost all of its momentum. Most abti gun groups are barely hanging on to existence while the NRA, GOA, FOAC and other gun rights groups are experiencing a massive influx of new members. I honestly see this as a major tipping point in history. The number of people who support the ideas of those like Ron Paul has exploded the last few years. Democratic voters have received a huge slap to the face with the realization that their taxes went up a noticeable amount. Their great one has blatantly lied to them and they are not happy. The states have been standing up to the feds more in the last 4 or 5 years than anytime in my 29 years. Hell Montana passed a law basically begging the feds to call their bluff with the Made in Montana law. Politicians have been running amok with this idea that they can always get rid of guns later. I think that without a major piece of gun legislation passing, those in office will realize they can't disarm us. Once that backup plan has gone the way of the Dodo, you'll see a massive change in Washington. Some will hold out but many will see the writing on the wall.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
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#12
Warpt762x39;65746 Wrote:The problem with incremental gun control is that you need some sort of public support for any of it to pass. Public support for new gun control is at an all time low. The number of gun owners in this country is skyrocketing. The gun control movement has lost all of its momentum. Most abti gun groups are barely hanging on to existence while the NRA, GOA, FOAC and other gun rights groups are experiencing a massive influx of new members. I honestly see this as a major tipping point in history. The number of people who support the ideas of those like Ron Paul has exploded the last few years. Democratic voters have received a huge slap to the face with the realization that their taxes went up a noticeable amount. Their great one has blatantly lied to them and they are not happy. The states have been standing up to the feds more in the last 4 or 5 years than anytime in my 29 years. Hell Montana passed a law basically begging the feds to call their bluff with the Made in Montana law. Politicians have been running amok with this idea that they can always get rid of guns later. I think that without a major piece of gun legislation passing, those in office will realize they can't disarm us. Once that backup plan has gone the way of the Dodo, you'll see a massive change in Washington. Some will hold out but many will see the writing on the wall.

Unfortunately, none of this mattes when the PotUS and his cronies have flat-out stated that they will act unilaterally and end-run congress if needed.
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#13
We, being gun owners, are a bunch of pussies. If we let this Biden group on gun violence stand we are nothing but cowards. There will come a point in time to put up or shut up and that time has probably already passed us by. The American revolutionaries had wifes and children just like us but they were willing to leave them behind and do something that thankfully was successful and made this country great. Those that didnt survive gave their lives for their families and future generations, now we are watching it all get pissed away. You will someday in the near future have to decide if you want yourself and family to be subjects or citizens. I truely believe that. I dont like it but that may very well be the case. jmo ETA: I think I may sell off my AR get a decent buck for it and buy a nice revolver to keep with the shotgun and only concern myself with home and personal protection. If they come for my guns I will only have the accepted ones available. I dont believe that has much as it is mentioned that the 2A was inserted to fight a tyranical gov that anyone would actually try. I have done the petitions and the letter writing and have come to realize these people dont give a shit what the citizans want. It is government by the rich and elite for the rich and elite and everyone except the protected class can go to hell as far has they are concerned.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#14
I'm starting to think that the gun ban banter is a decoy for what is really happening...if you think about it, guns and ammo are sort of in a banned state now! I cannot even find a decently priced upper or any affordable .223 ammo. Maybe banned isn't the correct term but the panic buying frenzy has driven prices up to levels that put guns and ammo out of reach for a lot of regular citizens. And I don't see the situation getting any better. The gun counter manager at Dunham's told me last night to prepare for .223/5.56, 7.62, .308 and all other traditional semi auto rifle rounds to be priced at $40 per box of 20 cartridges! He said this came down from upper management. He may be full of shit but I don't doubt it one bit! If they can't take the guns, they will go after the ammo! What good is a gun without ammo?

I'm also a little alarmed at the number of pro gun people telling everyone to sit back and relax...EO's won't happen, bans won't get votes in congress, additions to the NFA aren't allowed! This battle has gone beyond conventional government and turned into an emotional plea to the good citizens of the USA to end gun violence and turn America into some kind of fictional utopia of peace and love. DAS is right, no amount of writing, lobbying or calling is going to change anything. Our government is on a mission from a higher calling and nothing will stand in it's way...especially a piece of 200 year old paper with funny writing on it! I hope I am wrong but I truly think that the future is already planned and being implemented with or without our consent.
___________________________________________________________
A Reading from the Book of Armaments, Chapter 4, Verses 16 to 20:

Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."
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#15
(01-10-2013, 11:58 PM)Warpt762x39 Wrote: Exactly where has Obama created law with an executive order? The immigration thing wasn't a law. It didn't create, modify or overturn a law. It was an order to suspend deportations for two years. It didn't give anyone amnesty or citizenship.

Executive orders do not apply to citizens. They only apply to executive branch employees. EOs cannot be used to ban or confiscate guns. They can't even be used to allow concealed carry in national parks as George W Bush found out. They had to tack that onto the credit card reform bill Obama would never veto to get it passed. EOs also cannot be used to reclassify semi autos as NFA items as the definitions are laid out in several federal laws. Same with registrations. That's banned by three federal laws including Obamacare.

So basically, Obama can sign anything he wants but nothing he tries to jam through has force of law behind it. Any LEOs trying to enforce them will face criminal charges.

So suspension of law by Executive Order is not modifying a law?

What if the EO did the following:

1. Broadly defines "Mental defective" in the 1968 GCA to include those with "symptoms of PTSD"

1968 GCA section 922 (d) (4) states

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person --

(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

2. Directs that BATFE enhance NICS and such enhancement drive the cost of NICS up over $150.00 per transfer

3. Ensures that the data in NICS is always current, thereby directing that NICS maintenance occur every weekend essentially making NICS unavailable on Saturdays and Sundays.






Of every one hundred men in battle, ten should not even be there. Eighty, are nothing but targets. Nine are the real fighters, we are lucky to have them since they make the battle. Ah, but the one—one is the Warrior—and he brings the others home. —Heracletus
5711-Marine, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#16
Warpt762x39;65746 Wrote:The problem with incremental gun control is that you need some sort of public support for any of it to pass. Public support for new gun control is at an all time low. The number of gun owners in this country is skyrocketing. The gun control movement has lost all of its momentum. Most abti gun groups are barely hanging on to existence while the NRA, GOA, FOAC and other gun rights groups are experiencing a massive influx of new members. I honestly see this as a major tipping point in history. The number of people who support the ideas of those like Ron Paul has exploded the last few years. Democratic voters have received a huge slap to the face with the realization that their taxes went up a noticeable amount. Their great one has blatantly lied to them and they are not happy. The states have been standing up to the feds more in the last 4 or 5 years than anytime in my 29 years. Hell Montana passed a law basically begging the feds to call their bluff with the Made in Montana law. Politicians have been running amok with this idea that they can always get rid of guns later. I think that without a major piece of gun legislation passing, those in office will realize they can't disarm us. Once that backup plan has gone the way of the Dodo, you'll see a massive change in Washington. Some will hold out but many will see the writing on the wall.

Not sure what polls and stats you're seeing. Many polls show the general public is open to some new form of gun control. Bans on "assault weapons" and high-cap mags seem reasonable to the uninitiated. The left-wing media do a great job of framing the debate in their favor. Your own slimeball Senator Casey has done the political calculus and decided it's time to turn his back on the Second Amendment.
[Image: sigban.jpg]

Gman106, proud to be the original "throbbing member" of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#17
All this talk about EO this and EO that should be considered proof positive that even they think they can't get anything passed in Congress.
Dave, proudly annoying members of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#18
RocketFoot;65771 Wrote:I'm starting to think that the gun ban banter is a decoy for what is really happening.

<snip>

I hope I am wrong but I truly think that the future is already planned and being implemented with or without our consent.

We've already beaten but we don't realize it yet. There is no need for a major ban right now either through legislation or executive order. All Obama really has to do is appease the left's base with some token action - high cap mag ban, ammo tax, whatever - while moving towards the likeliest next step: full registration.

In the next decade or so, most people are going to rely on the federal government for health care. That's where the Affordable Care Act was meant to take us and that's exactly where it will take us. Everyone knows it and some people who matter are finally saying it: (http://www.futureofcapitalism.com/2012/1...-interview). Very soon, companies will stop providing health insurance and start paying the small per employee fines, thereby forcing employees to look to the exchange for health care. But guess who is allowed to be the cheapest on the exchange? Hint: it's the same entity that can print its own money whenever it needs more. That will drive the private insurers out of the game. So the system is already rigged to make people go to the government for health care unless they are rich enough to pay for private concierge medical care.

Once most people rely on the feds for their health care, they can be made to dance like puppets on a string without the slightest bit of legislation. Own a gun? Sorry, but you're too much of a risk to treat. Drive an SUV, eat red meat, smoke cigarettes, do anything Big Brother doesn't like? Sorry, no health care for you. If you needed cancer treatment and the options were to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars out of your own pocket (assuming you're still allowed to do so) or give up your guns in order to fit into the "acceptable risk" category and get treatment from the fed's system, which would you do? Sure, some folks will have the money to buy their own medical care and tell the feds to piss off, but that's where the "tax the rich so they pay their fair share" mantra comes in. Anyone rich enough to opt out will be hit with punitive taxes.

All they need to know is who has the guns. From there it's a simple step to use that information combined with health care to control what gun owners (and everyone else) can do.

Game, set, match.
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#19
Gman106;65884 Wrote:
Warpt762x39;65746 Wrote:The problem with incremental gun control is that you need some sort of public support for any of it to pass. Public support for new gun control is at an all time low. The number of gun owners in this country is skyrocketing. The gun control movement has lost all of its momentum. Most abti gun groups are barely hanging on to existence while the NRA, GOA, FOAC and other gun rights groups are experiencing a massive influx of new members. I honestly see this as a major tipping point in history. The number of people who support the ideas of those like Ron Paul has exploded the last few years. Democratic voters have received a huge slap to the face with the realization that their taxes went up a noticeable amount. Their great one has blatantly lied to them and they are not happy. The states have been standing up to the feds more in the last 4 or 5 years than anytime in my 29 years. Hell Montana passed a law basically begging the feds to call their bluff with the Made in Montana law. Politicians have been running amok with this idea that they can always get rid of guns later. I think that without a major piece of gun legislation passing, those in office will realize they can't disarm us. Once that backup plan has gone the way of the Dodo, you'll see a massive change in Washington. Some will hold out but many will see the writing on the wall.

Not sure what polls and stats you're seeing. Many polls show the general public is open to some new form of gun control. Bans on "assault weapons" and high-cap mags seem reasonable to the uninitiated. The left-wing media do a great job of framing the debate in their favor. Your own slimeball Senator Casey has done the political calculus and decided it's time to turn his back on the Second Amendment.

Just for informational purposes, where are you from Gman106?
[Image: member955.png]
USAF (1976 -1986) NRA, GOA Anim_sniper2
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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#20
5711-Marine;65790 Wrote:
(01-10-2013, 11:58 PM)Warpt762x39 Wrote: Exactly where has Obama created law with an executive order? The immigration thing wasn't a law. It didn't create, modify or overturn a law. It was an order to suspend deportations for two years. It didn't give anyone amnesty or citizenship.

Executive orders do not apply to citizens. They only apply to executive branch employees. EOs cannot be used to ban or confiscate guns. They can't even be used to allow concealed carry in national parks as George W Bush found out. They had to tack that onto the credit card reform bill Obama would never veto to get it passed. EOs also cannot be used to reclassify semi autos as NFA items as the definitions are laid out in several federal laws. Same with registrations. That's banned by three federal laws including Obamacare.

So basically, Obama can sign anything he wants but nothing he tries to jam through has force of law behind it. Any LEOs trying to enforce them will face criminal charges.

So suspension of law by Executive Order is not modifying a law?

What if the EO did the following:

1. Broadly defines "Mental defective" in the 1968 GCA to include those with "symptoms of PTSD"

1968 GCA section 922 (d) (4) states

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person --

(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

2. Directs that BATFE enhance NICS and such enhancement drive the cost of NICS up over $150.00 per transfer

3. Ensures that the data in NICS is always current, thereby directing that NICS maintenance occur every weekend essentially making NICS unavailable on Saturdays and Sundays.






Of every one hundred men in battle, ten should not even be there. Eighty, are nothing but targets. Nine are the real fighters, we are lucky to have them since they make the battle. Ah, but the one—one is the Warrior—and he brings the others home. —Heracletus

First, delaying implementation of a law isn't modifying it. The law is still valid. He did not change anything about the law. Nobody got amnesty or citizenship. Second, the ATF has nothing to do with NICS. The FBI handles it. Third, GCA is a federal law. An EO cannot be used to change definitions in it. Fourth, NICS should be updated with relevant information. How is that a bad thing? That's actually doing what they are supposed to do.

thebearpack;65896 Wrote:
RocketFoot;65771 Wrote:I'm starting to think that the gun ban banter is a decoy for what is really happening.

<snip>

I hope I am wrong but I truly think that the future is already planned and being implemented with or without our consent.

We've already beaten but we don't realize it yet. There is no need for a major ban right now either through legislation or executive order. All Obama really has to do is appease the left's base with some token action - high cap mag ban, ammo tax, whatever - while moving towards the likeliest next step: full registration.

In the next decade or so, most people are going to rely on the federal government for health care. That's where the Affordable Care Act was meant to take us and that's exactly where it will take us. Everyone knows it and some people who matter are finally saying it: (http://www.futureofcapitalism.com/2012/1...-interview). Very soon, companies will stop providing health insurance and start paying the small per employee fines, thereby forcing employees to look to the exchange for health care. But guess who is allowed to be the cheapest on the exchange? Hint: it's the same entity that can print its own money whenever it needs more. That will drive the private insurers out of the game. So the system is already rigged to make people go to the government for health care unless they are rich enough to pay for private concierge medical care.

Once most people rely on the feds for their health care, they can be made to dance like puppets on a string without the slightest bit of legislation. Own a gun? Sorry, but you're too much of a risk to treat. Drive an SUV, eat red meat, smoke cigarettes, do anything Big Brother doesn't like? Sorry, no health care for you. If you needed cancer treatment and the options were to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars out of your own pocket (assuming you're still allowed to do so) or give up your guns in order to fit into the "acceptable risk" category and get treatment from the fed's system, which would you do? Sure, some folks will have the money to buy their own medical care and tell the feds to piss off, but that's where the "tax the rich so they pay their fair share" mantra comes in. Anyone rich enough to opt out will be hit with punitive taxes.

All they need to know is who has the guns. From there it's a simple step to use that information combined with health care to control what gun owners (and everyone else) can do.

Game, set, match.

Gun and ammo registration is already prohibited in three federal laws, including Obamacare.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
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