09-15-2012, 08:40 PM
I am sure most of those here have already seen this, just figured I would bring it over from the other site...
Well, last night the wife and I headed out to the West End Fair in Gilbert to watch the demo derby. Before heading out I searched online at their website and found no policy of any sort. I also OC there last year with no issues so I was not expecting any this year. When we got there, we walked up to the gate, paid our entrance fee and went right in with no issues(no signs posted or anything of the sort). We walked towards the main arena to get our tickets for the derby, and along the way she found a jewelery stand that had a couple rings she wanted. After purchasing those I realized I did not have enough cash on me for the rest of the night, so we had to make a trip back out tot the car to grab some more.
On the way back in we had to walk past a group of several Sheriffs Deputies. This is when I was told that I would not be allowed to enter as long as I was OC. I explained that I had already entered and showed them my hand stamp. I was told that It must have been missed and that I would need to conceal to enter. The deputy seemed to be under the impression that once you had a "CCW Permit" that you must conceal. I tried to explain several times that PA did not have a CCW permit, that it issued a LTCF and nowhere does it stipulate that you must conceal, but got cut off or shot down every time. Since we wanted to see the derby I had decided to go grab my LTCF and cover up. The officer also assured me that he could show me on the license that it was a CCW and I had to conceal in public.
I did my best to remain as calm as possible. Some of the things that I was told that I am not sure if they are in the video are: I was arguing and defying the Officer, I am not allowed to OC because it will cause panic for others in the fair, If I wanted to keep my LTCF I had to cooperate and not OC, I had not idea what I was talking about. parents don't want their kids to see that...
At one point in the video you can see the officers walk away and then come back with a slightly better attitude. This is where he went to talk to one of his superiors(I think) and was basically told that I was correct and that I was legally allowed to OC. The issue then became that the fair grounds was private property and that weapons were not allowed. I said if that was truly an issue, we would like a refund and would leave, but wanted to make a suggestion that they(the fair operators) post signage or somehow make it available of their policy so that this issue doesn't happen more.
This then lead to the president of the fair committee coming out to give clarification on the policy and see if i would be allowed in as long as I CC. Well the guy came out but never said a single word because a different deputy did all of his talking. My wife did not catch this on the recording, but he was very rude and simply said that the policy was no drugs, no alcohol, no firearms and I had to leave. even took the $10 refund out of his pocket so that I would leave without walking up to ask for a refund or wait while one of the other deputies walked up to get one for me. when the suggestion was made to the fair president to have signs posted, the deputy jumped in again and said they don't have to post signs and that i just needed to leave, he wasn't going to argue with me.
I would like to send a letter but I am not good at writing that sort of thing. MY biggest issue is that it seems that they do not understand or know the law that OC is legal once you have a LTCF. On a slightly positive side, I was never disarmed for "officer safety". They never asked to see the firearm to run the numbers or anything. I do regret giving him my LTCF but I really did want to see him try to show me where it said concealed on it. He did look it over and seemed to be dumbfounded that it did not have what he was looking for. the reason that I regret it is that he then copied my info down off of it (when he threatened to revoke it for OC)
Anyhow after the lengthy post that I am sure missed some details, here is the video my wife recorded. It started just after I gave him my LTCF so he could show me that it said I had to conceal.
[youtube]VHm8jHvCWzI[/youtube]
Well, last night the wife and I headed out to the West End Fair in Gilbert to watch the demo derby. Before heading out I searched online at their website and found no policy of any sort. I also OC there last year with no issues so I was not expecting any this year. When we got there, we walked up to the gate, paid our entrance fee and went right in with no issues(no signs posted or anything of the sort). We walked towards the main arena to get our tickets for the derby, and along the way she found a jewelery stand that had a couple rings she wanted. After purchasing those I realized I did not have enough cash on me for the rest of the night, so we had to make a trip back out tot the car to grab some more.
On the way back in we had to walk past a group of several Sheriffs Deputies. This is when I was told that I would not be allowed to enter as long as I was OC. I explained that I had already entered and showed them my hand stamp. I was told that It must have been missed and that I would need to conceal to enter. The deputy seemed to be under the impression that once you had a "CCW Permit" that you must conceal. I tried to explain several times that PA did not have a CCW permit, that it issued a LTCF and nowhere does it stipulate that you must conceal, but got cut off or shot down every time. Since we wanted to see the derby I had decided to go grab my LTCF and cover up. The officer also assured me that he could show me on the license that it was a CCW and I had to conceal in public.
I did my best to remain as calm as possible. Some of the things that I was told that I am not sure if they are in the video are: I was arguing and defying the Officer, I am not allowed to OC because it will cause panic for others in the fair, If I wanted to keep my LTCF I had to cooperate and not OC, I had not idea what I was talking about. parents don't want their kids to see that...
At one point in the video you can see the officers walk away and then come back with a slightly better attitude. This is where he went to talk to one of his superiors(I think) and was basically told that I was correct and that I was legally allowed to OC. The issue then became that the fair grounds was private property and that weapons were not allowed. I said if that was truly an issue, we would like a refund and would leave, but wanted to make a suggestion that they(the fair operators) post signage or somehow make it available of their policy so that this issue doesn't happen more.
This then lead to the president of the fair committee coming out to give clarification on the policy and see if i would be allowed in as long as I CC. Well the guy came out but never said a single word because a different deputy did all of his talking. My wife did not catch this on the recording, but he was very rude and simply said that the policy was no drugs, no alcohol, no firearms and I had to leave. even took the $10 refund out of his pocket so that I would leave without walking up to ask for a refund or wait while one of the other deputies walked up to get one for me. when the suggestion was made to the fair president to have signs posted, the deputy jumped in again and said they don't have to post signs and that i just needed to leave, he wasn't going to argue with me.
I would like to send a letter but I am not good at writing that sort of thing. MY biggest issue is that it seems that they do not understand or know the law that OC is legal once you have a LTCF. On a slightly positive side, I was never disarmed for "officer safety". They never asked to see the firearm to run the numbers or anything. I do regret giving him my LTCF but I really did want to see him try to show me where it said concealed on it. He did look it over and seemed to be dumbfounded that it did not have what he was looking for. the reason that I regret it is that he then copied my info down off of it (when he threatened to revoke it for OC)
Anyhow after the lengthy post that I am sure missed some details, here is the video my wife recorded. It started just after I gave him my LTCF so he could show me that it said I had to conceal.
[youtube]VHm8jHvCWzI[/youtube]
XTCjpr13, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
![[Image: mikey1j.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=imageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg40%2F9236%2Fmikey1j.jpg)
