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FMJ -vs- JHP
#11
Taking over-penetration in to consideration I've starting carrying 4 JHPs followed by 4 FMJs in my .45 primarily because if I'm firing more than 4 rounds at a target, I may be less concerned about over-penetration by that point.
"As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God, protect my sweet ride."
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#12
A couple of things I saw mentioned, first being that a lighter round recoils more than a heavy round. Not true. Don't believe me, shoot a Mosin Nagant with the light ball ammo then with heavy ball ammo. The recoil is noticably more with the 180gr load.

Second, FMJs in a 9mm are horrible for self defense because of numerous reasons. First is overpenetration. You're risking hitting others with a bullet that zipped through the bad guy. Second, a round that zips right through doesn't do enough damage to stop a threat. A hollow point round expands to make a bigger hole and to damage more tissue. The military doesn't use FMJs because they're effective manstoppers. They use them because of the Geneva Conventions. Would you use a FMJ for deer hunting or would you use a round that expands and takes down the animal quickly and humanely?

FMJs are for training. Hollow points are for self defense. This whole alternating between FMJs and HPs defies logic. Why would you load your self defense weapon with ineffective rounds? Why would you alternate between loads in the same magazine? FMJs and HPs don't always share a point.of impact in relation to point of aim. My pistol puts FMJs in a different spot than it does the Hornady Critical Defense I feed it for carry. It's irresponsible and pointless.
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#13
"On a similar website" there was a lengthy discussion about what are the best JHPs for the 9mm.  I know what I carry, 124 grain +p Federal HSTs, were one of the top 9mm hollow points you could carry in terms of reliable penetration (that word sounds so dirty, haha) and expansion.
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
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#14
(09-12-2012, 11:55 PM)palawstudent Wrote: "On a similar website" there was a lengthy discussion about what are the best JHPs for the 9mm.  I know what I carry, 124 grain +p Federal HSTs, were one of the top 9mm hollow points you could carry in terms of reliable penetration (that word sounds so dirty, haha) and expansion.

I had those in my 9mm for a while but I kept having dreams that my gun would choke on them so I went back to Hornady Critical Defense. I may look into the Hornady Critical Duty loads. They are heavier than Critical Defense (135gr vs 115gr) and are +P.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
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#15
(09-13-2012, 12:02 AM)Warpt762x39 Wrote:
(09-12-2012, 11:55 PM)palawstudent Wrote: "On a similar website" there was a lengthy discussion about what are the best JHPs for the 9mm.  I know what I carry, 124 grain +p Federal HSTs, were one of the top 9mm hollow points you could carry in terms of reliable penetration (that word sounds so dirty, haha) and expansion.

I had those in my 9mm for a while but I kept having dreams that my gun would choke on them so I went back to Hornady Critical Defense. I may look into the Hornady Critical Duty loads. They are heavier than Critical Defense (135gr vs 115gr) and are +P.


If you don't mind me asking, what were you afraid they would jam in?
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
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#16
(09-13-2012, 12:03 AM)palawstudent Wrote:
(09-13-2012, 12:02 AM)Warpt762x39 Wrote:
(09-12-2012, 11:55 PM)palawstudent Wrote: "On a similar website" there was a lengthy discussion about what are the best JHPs for the 9mm.  I know what I carry, 124 grain +p Federal HSTs, were one of the top 9mm hollow points you could carry in terms of reliable penetration (that word sounds so dirty, haha) and expansion.

I had those in my 9mm for a while but I kept having dreams that my gun would choke on them so I went back to Hornady Critical Defense. I may look into the Hornady Critical Duty loads. They are heavier than Critical Defense (135gr vs 115gr) and are +P.


If you don't mind me asking, what were you afraid they would jam in?

9mm XDm. I doubt they would jam but having several dreams involving your gun choking on a HP in the middle of a self defense situation can be spooky. I already know the Hornady rounds function in the gun and expand reliably. I did a ballistics gel test a few years ago. Those Hornady rounds expand beautifully and look exactly like the ads show them. Only reason I switched to the Federal ammo was it was a heavier bullet. The Critical Duty is slightly heavier than that but very similar build to the Critical Defense. I'll need to get some and whip up more ballistics gel and give them a try. Have to wait til winter so the blocks of gel don't melt.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
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#17
(09-13-2012, 12:13 AM)Warpt762x39 Wrote:
(09-13-2012, 12:03 AM)palawstudent Wrote:
(09-13-2012, 12:02 AM)Warpt762x39 Wrote: I had those in my 9mm for a while but I kept having dreams that my gun would choke on them so I went back to Hornady Critical Defense. I may look into the Hornady Critical Duty loads. They are heavier than Critical Defense (135gr vs 115gr) and are +P.


If you don't mind me asking, what were you afraid they would jam in?

9mm XDm. I doubt they would jam but having several dreams involving your gun choking on a HP in the middle of a self defense situation can be spooky. I already know the Hornady rounds function in the gun and expand reliably. I did a ballistics gel test a few years ago. Those Hornady rounds expand beautifully and look exactly like the ads show them. Only reason I switched to the Federal ammo was it was a heavier bullet. The Critical Duty is slightly heavier than that but very similar build to the Critical Defense. I'll need to get some and whip up more ballistics gel and give them a try. Have to wait til winter so the blocks of gel don't melt.


Yeah, I'd definitely like to see the end result of those gel tests.
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
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#18
(09-12-2012, 11:19 PM)ByblosHex Wrote: Taking over-penetration in to consideration I've starting carrying 4 JHPs followed by 4 FMJs in my .45 primarily because if I'm firing more than 4 rounds at a target, I may be less concerned about over-penetration by that point.

If you want deep penetration, 185gr+P hard cast semi wadcutters would be a much better selection. It'll penetrate deeper than FMJ, is less likely to ricochet off a hard surface, and it will leave a full caliber diameter hole, as opposed to round nose FMJ, which leaves a hole approx 1/2 the diameter of the projectile.

I have Buffalo Bore 100gr+P hard cast flat nose rounds in both my extra magazines for my LCP.
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#19
I load my 9mm with jhp from ammo manufacturers law enforcement or personal defense line. I currently have it loaded with 147gr. HST but have in the past used Remington Golden Saber, Winchesters 127 +p+, and Gold Dots 124 +p.

They all meet the FBI's 12 in. ballisitc test standard which gives me enough penetration yet they expand for a larger wound and prevent overpenetration.


I load my pocket .380 with Winchester Flat FMJ to ensure penetration depth of 12 in.


Obviously, as long as my JHP reaches the 12 inches I will use it exclusively but if not then I go FMJ to get the penetration needed. YMMV
"When the boot of the Government is on your throat does it matter if it's the left or the right?"  Author Unknown (but great quote)
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#20
(09-17-2012, 04:16 PM)Valorius Wrote:
(09-12-2012, 11:19 PM)ByblosHex Wrote: Taking over-penetration in to consideration I've starting carrying 4 JHPs followed by 4 FMJs in my .45 primarily because if I'm firing more than 4 rounds at a target, I may be less concerned about over-penetration by that point.

If you want deep penetration, 185gr+P hard cast semi wadcutters would be a much better selection. It'll penetrate deeper than FMJ, is less likely to ricochet off a hard surface, and it will leave a full caliber diameter hole, as opposed to round nose FMJ, which leaves a hole approx 1/2 the diameter of the projectile.

I have Buffalo Bore 100gr+P hard cast flat nose rounds in both my extra magazines for my LCP.

Mr. President,as always you give-th good advice. I shall heed all that I have read here but as always , you stand out ! Thank you !
dman, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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