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Genius Swat Officer
#1
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2013/05/1...ice-force/

At PoliceOne.com, one genius SWAT team member makes this remarkable argument.

Tactical teams seeking their terrorist prey in the greater Boston area did so in great numbers — numbers that would make military commanders in Afghanistan envious. Video footage showed the American law enforcement warrior looking for a fight.

Citizens cheered as the second terrorist was captured, jubilation spread across the country. We American Law Men were especially proud as our brothers in the Boston area took the fight to the terrorist. These men and women are true American Patriots — a testament to the “Warrior Spirit” in law enforcement — as tactical teams and uniformed officers brought swift justice and victory.

Warrior. Marine Corps training seeks to seed the warrior spirit, but rather than see themselves as peace officers in the finest tradition of colonial constables, SWAT team members now see themselves as “warriors.” And note the utterly heroic terms he uses to express the recent travesty of justice in Boston. “Looking for a fight” … “proud” … “cheered” … “jubilation” by the people.

But I’ve addressed this issue of the fact that they will never be as trained, qualified, or reliable as a well trained military.

I recommend you follow the site and read the article. This has been on my mind since day one and it seems like I get called a moron for even thinking that maybe this was the worst possible reaction to terrorism.

Your thoughts?
JDP, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Apr 2013.
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#2
Quote:Tactical teams seeking their terrorist prey in the greater Boston area did so in great numbers — numbers that would make military commanders in Afghanistan envious. Video footage showed the American law enforcement warrior looking for a fight.

So we have "tactical law enforcement warriors" in a position of authority who are looking for a fight? If that doesn't seem alarming, then I pity society. If law enforcement has to restrict the rights of Americans at any level, no matter how small it is, then the terrorists won. Incidents like the Boston bombing are going to happen. Not all terrorist attacks can be prevented. By FORCING law abiding citizens out of their homes and searching them without any warrants, the police are terrorizing citizens and are practically accomplices in the terrorists' plans to terrorize Americans. By not allowing people out of their homes and shutting down an entire city because of one person, you just let the terrorist win. The real heroes are those who continue about their business, practicing their freedoms despite constant threat by terrorists to inflict maxiumum harm. Real heroes do not restrict the freedoms of American citizens because of the actions of extremists.
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#3
I don't want this to be construed to mean that I don't like or have respect for peace officers. Quite the opposite actually. What I do think, is that if I had the opportunity to walk around kitted out with a FA M4 and 1000 of my buddies I would too! But... Perhaps this isn't the best way to conduct business. If I were a terrorist I would think the reaction was greater than the effort put forth to provoke and I would think that is exactly what they consider to be a huge win for them.

There is no need for this sort of para military force.

John Dillinger
John Wayne Gayce
Ted Kaczynski

And many, many more were taken down by men in suits. Nothing fancy, no media coverage or assistance just good ol' detective and police work.
JDP, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Apr 2013.
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#4
Take it as you will, but I think there is a very, very limited scope where having well-trained, well-armed police is a good thing.

The first people on the scene of a massacre will be every-day people and the police. If it is an attack by Al Qaeda or a similar organization, then the responders are going to need every once of firepower and training they can bring to bear on the situation. And so, in a similar situation I think a well-armed, well-trained police and general public is a good thing.

HOWEVER, I do think Boston took this WAAAYYYY too far. I think for this to be effective and not trample on our rights, police must:

1) Respect our rights and NOT try to find any way around them for any reason
2) Better explain why they do what they do (often they are on solid legal footing, but don't explain what they are doing, so people are led to believe their rights are being violated)
3) Deal with the bad officers quickly and harshly. We are quickly getting in a situation (of not already there) where mostly wolves are guarding the sheep, and the sheepdogs are ridiculed for protecting the sheep
4) Understand that an arrest is not always the best solution to a situation.
5) Be willing to loose court cases because that is how checks and balances work
6) Have a genuine concern for the well-being of those under their care - if this is done, the others will fall into place.

Unfortunately, we have a very limited need for militarization of police, and the police are gaining a military mindset to go with it, instead of a "The police are the people and the people are the police" mentality as espoused by the "Father of Modern Policing", Sir Robert Peel.
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#5
Who said......"If you want to test a man's character, give him power."?



"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
— Abraham Lincoln
"In 4 more OMao years you won't like how America looks....I guarantee it."
“When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” -- Thomas Jefferson
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#6
rmagill;101824 Wrote:Take it as you will, but I think there is a very, very limited scope where having well-trained, well-armed police is a good thing.

The first people on the scene of a massacre will be every-day people and the police. If it is an attack by Al Qaeda or a similar organization, then the responders are going to need every once of firepower and training they can bring to bear on the situation. And so, in a similar situation I think a well-armed, well-trained police and general public is a good thing.

Be that as it may, I think a smarter police force is better than a well armed one. Seeing strikers and armored HUMVEES roll down American streets is not a calming sight. If you want to get kitted up, go run a 3 gun match or join up with the military. We need smart officers willing to defend our rights and serve in an intelligent manner.
JDP, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Apr 2013.
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#7
For all the wrastling-up that LEOs did of innocents outside of Boston looking for the punk, it was a single dude outside having a cigarette who noticed his normally-skin-tight tarp on his boat messed-up that actually found the dude.

The 4th Amendment took a holiday that day. In fact, I think the 4th Amendment was completely thrown out thanks to Patriot Act I.

An entire metro area put in total lockdown, and a large suburb penned in like a concentration camp while fatasses that could barely fit in their camos romped around suburban streets and barnstormed their way through private homes for the better part of 9 hours... then right as they give up, a civvie breaks the deadlock.


If some LEO's feel proud over that, luck to 'em. They're not the ones who had to stare down the other end of a barrel when they answered their front doors.



If this is the kind of police state we have to live in, then the terrorists have already won.
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#8
ArcticSplash;101944 Wrote:An entire metro area put in total lockdown, and a large suburb penned in like a concentration camp while fatasses that could barely fit in their camos romped around suburban streets and barnstormed their way through private homes for the better part of 9 hours... then right as they give up, a civvie breaks the deadlock.

If some LEO's feel proud over that, luck to 'em. They're not the ones who had to stare down the other end of a barrel when they answered their front doors.

If this is the kind of police state we have to live in, then the terrorists have already won.

Agreed. They had the citizenry terrified of more bombs and afraid to answer their doors. When they did answer their doors, they were looking down the muzzles of multiple assault rifles.

We also saw photos of people being escorted from the safety of their homes to, well, um, "safety."

In all that, one guy was found, bleeding out, hiding in somebody's boat in a driveway, reportedly where they had already looked.

We now read about law enforcement "warriors" looking for a fight, jubilation, proud brothers, cheering crowds, which just sounds like nothing more than statist jingoism to me.

Tell me again who the terrorists were/are? Dodgy
I don't suffer from insanity.
I enjoy every minute of it.
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#9
Pocketprotector;101826 Wrote:Who said......"If you want to test a man's character, give him power."?



"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
— Abraham Lincoln

Yeah, and look at what he did with it!
kevindsingleton, proud to be a contributing member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.

Have some Pi: http://www.raspberrypi.org/
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#10
JDP;101942 Wrote:
rmagill;101824 Wrote:Take it as you will, but I think there is a very, very limited scope where having well-trained, well-armed police is a good thing.

The first people on the scene of a massacre will be every-day people and the police. If it is an attack by Al Qaeda or a similar organization, then the responders are going to need every once of firepower and training they can bring to bear on the situation. And so, in a similar situation I think a well-armed, well-trained police and general public is a good thing.

Be that as it may, I think a smarter police force is better than a well armed one. Seeing strikers and armored HUMVEES roll down American streets is not a calming sight. If you want to get kitted up, go run a 3 gun match or join up with the military. We need smart officers willing to defend our rights and serve in an intelligent manner.

I agree that a smart police force is very, very important. I also believe that thinking one's way through a situation is much better than fighting through it. That being said, when the bad guy has IEDs all over the place and had machine gun nests set up, I'll take all the armor and rifles I can get... so I can intelligently, quickly, and safely for those around me and myself, stop the threat. This does not mean, however, that I think the CotUS should be suspended when the SHTF.

I 100% agree with pretty much everyone here that the Boston situation was handled very, very poorly. I believe the same thing could have been done without the show of force and suspending the CotUS. The APCs and the such have a place - if a Beslan style attack happens in the US. For tracking down the Boston bomber, I really think everyone went waaayyy to overboard. I think it is despicable how the officers responded and that they should face the legal consequences of violating the CotUS.

I think, ideally, the police should be very intelligent, well-trained, works within the CotUS (as opposed to finding ways around it), and is also well-equipped. I know this isn't where we are at, but I think it is where we need to be.

I also think that a well-armed and well-trained citizenry is this country's best defense against malicious intent.
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