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Illegal Aliens
#41
das;24061 Wrote:
andrewjs18;24053 Wrote:I'm not a protectionist so if my salary dropped due to competition, then I'd either get used to it, adjust my living standards, or find a job in a different field.

I believe the states actions to put up barriers to competition to be illegitimate, whether you deem it to be 'legal' or 'illegal' competition.
Andrew, May I ask how old you are? It doesnt seem to some of us that you have "been around the block" so to speak. I know Mitch's position I was in the same line of work. When someone can bid a job at barely over what the price of material sells for because they all live in a one room apartment. You cant compete. Deal me in is just has ridiculous. If you have a trade you have been doing your entire life and have a home and family you cant just drop everything and go learn a new skill. I know idiots that have hired these illegals to do their work and many of them got exactly what they paid for sub standard shitty work. You people with cushy jobs should go out and bust your ass 10hrs a day, beat the hell out of your body and your health year after year and see if you still think these illegals are doing no harm. Like Mitch said if you dont live it you have no right to say anything about that situation. Mitch isnt talking about being protected hes talking about leveling the playing field for American workers who pay taxes and contribute to our economy.

I will concur and add that when people talk about "competition" with these illegals they need to remember that if legalized they will demand more wages ( the unions will see to that). While there is the brown market for their "skills" people dont take into account all the money illegals and their anchor babies cost the taxpayer. Everything from the leeches being born here, educated here, all the free lunches at school, bi-lingual classes and so forth. The taxpayer should not have to pay that so someone else can line their pocket that much more.

I am all for free enterprise. You have the option to hire someone cheaper, but illegal aliens being an option for a contractor to use is like having your opponent in a baseball game hit with a corked bat but you cant.

There is no training for the illegals most dont have experience and learn on the job if they are lucky and then people's housing get screwed up.
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#42
das;24061 Wrote:
andrewjs18;24053 Wrote:I'm not a protectionist so if my salary dropped due to competition, then I'd either get used to it, adjust my living standards, or find a job in a different field.

I believe the states actions to put up barriers to competition to be illegitimate, whether you deem it to be 'legal' or 'illegal' competition.
Andrew, May I ask how old you are? It doesnt seem to some of us that you have "been around the block" so to speak. I know Mitch's position I was in the same line of work. When someone can bid a job at barely over what the price of material sells for because they all live in a one room apartment. You cant compete. Deal me in is just has ridiculous. If you have a trade you have been doing your entire life and have a home and family you cant just drop everything and go learn a new skill. I know idiots that have hired these illegals to do their work and many of them got exactly what they paid for sub standard shitty work. You people with cushy jobs should go out and bust your ass 10hrs a day, beat the hell out of your body and your health year after year and see if you still think these illegals are doing no harm. Like Mitch said if you dont live it you have no right to say anything about that situation. Mitch isnt talking about being protected hes talking about leveling the playing field for American workers who pay taxes and contribute to our economy.

my age is irrelevant in this discussion. I work in the IT industry and a lot of call center jobs have been shipped to Canada, the middle east and the Caribbeans, yet humans seem to adjust and move into different fields or different careers if their jobs are being eliminated.

likewise, if someone hires an 'illegal' to do construction work and the work is poor, then that's THEIR problem. guess what? I've hired American construction workers to do work and their work has been pretty shitty as well. what's the argument there?!!?


Mitch10mm;24124 Wrote:It's naive to assume that savings is being passed on to the home buyer as well. It isn't. It is a lot more complicated than competition, capitalism and such as well. This is happening in not just construction jobs but other industry too. The effect on the economy is a negative one and has a trickle down effect.

please do indulge us with an economic explanation of your above comment. I'm DYING to hear it!

bluedog46;24127 Wrote:
das;24061 Wrote:Andrew, May I ask how old you are? It doesnt seem to some of us that you have "been around the block" so to speak. I know Mitch's position I was in the same line of work. When someone can bid a job at barely over what the price of material sells for because they all live in a one room apartment. You cant compete. Deal me in is just has ridiculous. If you have a trade you have been doing your entire life and have a home and family you cant just drop everything and go learn a new skill. I know idiots that have hired these illegals to do their work and many of them got exactly what they paid for sub standard shitty work. You people with cushy jobs should go out and bust your ass 10hrs a day, beat the hell out of your body and your health year after year and see if you still think these illegals are doing no harm. Like Mitch said if you dont live it you have no right to say anything about that situation. Mitch isnt talking about being protected hes talking about leveling the playing field for American workers who pay taxes and contribute to our economy.

I will concur and add that when people talk about "competition" with these illegals they need to remember that if legalized they will demand more wages ( the unions will see to that). While there is the brown market for their "skills" people dont take into account all the money illegals and their anchor babies cost the taxpayer. Everything from the leeches being born here, educated here, all the free lunches at school, bi-lingual classes and so forth. The taxpayer should not have to pay that so someone else can line their pocket that much more.

I am all for free enterprise. You have the option to hire someone cheaper, but illegal aliens being an option for a contractor to use is like having your opponent in a baseball game hit with a corked bat but you cant.

There is no training for the illegals most dont have experience and learn on the job if they are lucky and then people's housing get screwed up.

LOL!!!!!!

illegal aliens don't cost tax payers anywhere NEAR the amount of money that legal residents do. so please, tell the state to stop stealing my money whether it's for 'legal' or 'illegal' residents because they're really racking up the bill.

you're not for free enterprise if you want to put up barriers to competition. what you are is a protectionists - you want the state to protect some industries from market competition.
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#43
Andrew you just dont understand what is being said. No one is asking for protection or regulations. What we are saying in the easiest way is get illegals out of the freaking country. They are parasites that suck the life out us, you included. Has far has hiring U.S. contractors and getting poor work you should done your homework and wouldnt have gotten shitty work. No one to blame but yourself.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#44
das;24321 Wrote:Andrew you just dont understand what is being said. No one is asking for protection or regulations. What we are saying in the easiest way is get illegals out of the freaking country. They are parasites that suck the life out us, you included. Has far has hiring U.S. contractors and getting poor work you should done your homework and wouldnt have gotten shitty work. No one to blame but yourself.

they don't suck the life blood out of us/you anymore than legal citizens do. in fact, I'll bet, nay, I'm almost positive, legal citizens cost us/you more money than illegals do. so, what's the solution there?

I'm not blaming anyone but myself for having shoddy work, although it wasn't expensive work, so I'm not losing sleep over it. the point is, scapegoating Mexicans does nothing to increase liberty.
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#45
andrewjs18;24324 Wrote:
das;24321 Wrote:Andrew you just dont understand what is being said. No one is asking for protection or regulations. What we are saying in the easiest way is get illegals out of the freaking country. They are parasites that suck the life out us, you included. Has far has hiring U.S. contractors and getting poor work you should done your homework and wouldnt have gotten shitty work. No one to blame but yourself.

they don't suck the life blood out of us/you anymore than legal citizens do. in fact, I'll bet, nay, I'm almost positive, legal citizens cost us/you more money than illegals do. so, what's the solution there?

I'm not blaming anyone but myself for having shoddy work, although it wasn't expensive work, so I'm not losing sleep over it. the point is, scapegoating Mexicans does nothing to increase liberty.
So basically you agree with Obama to let them in freely and do what ever they wish. When they start getting paid cash to do your job and your out of work keep that in mind OK? Then you you wont have to worry about adjusting your lifestyle you wont have one with no job. Then you will see how "easy" it is to go out, get an education to get a better job while trying to pay your bills and keep a roof over your head. For Gods sake read your own sig line every now and then.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#46
das;24327 Wrote:
andrewjs18;24324 Wrote:they don't suck the life blood out of us/you anymore than legal citizens do. in fact, I'll bet, nay, I'm almost positive, legal citizens cost us/you more money than illegals do. so, what's the solution there?

I'm not blaming anyone but myself for having shoddy work, although it wasn't expensive work, so I'm not losing sleep over it. the point is, scapegoating Mexicans does nothing to increase liberty.
So basically you agree with Obama to let them in freely and do what ever they wish. When they start getting paid cash to do your job and your out of work keep that in mind OK? Then you you wont have to worry about adjusting your lifestyle you wont have one with no job. Then you will see how "easy" it is to go out, get an education to get a better job while trying to pay your bills and keep a roof over your head.

not quite.

first, I don't believe in invisible borders on a map that the state draws (except, of course, for physical borders).

second, as long as a private property owner is OK with people using their property to cross from one area to the next, I don't have any problems.

third, Mexicans more often than not do grunt work, like landscaping, cooking, cleaning, construction, and agricultural because that's the skills they have from their native country.

forth, stop being a protectionist! google it, youtube it...you're rants in this thread definitely confirm it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njIlZ2xYq0
[Image: quotes.php]
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#47
andrewjs18;24328 Wrote:
das;24327 Wrote:So basically you agree with Obama to let them in freely and do what ever they wish. When they start getting paid cash to do your job and your out of work keep that in mind OK? Then you you wont have to worry about adjusting your lifestyle you wont have one with no job. Then you will see how "easy" it is to go out, get an education to get a better job while trying to pay your bills and keep a roof over your head.

not quite.

first, I don't believe in invisible borders on a map that the state draws (except, of course, for physical borders).

second, as long as a private property owner is OK with people using their property to cross from one area to the next, I don't have any problems.

third, Mexicans more often than not do grunt work, like landscaping, cooking, cleaning, construction, and agricultural because that's the skills they have from their native country.

forth, stop being a protectionist! google it, youtube it...you're rants in this thread definitely confirm it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njIlZ2xYq0

I don't think that anyone is totally against immigration however every nation has the right to decide how people are to enter and remain in said nation. Try illegally crossing Mexico's southern border and tell us what happened in 10 years when you get out of their prison.

Why should illegal immigrants be given a free pass to citizenship? There are thousands of legal immigrants who would like to become citizens but because they are following the rules they will have to wait years while a number of illegal immigrants are getting it granted them immediately. I seriously doubt that if you were following the rules and someone else, who cheated, was allowed in front of you that you would be happy.
[Image: member955.png]
USAF (1976 -1986) NRA, GOA Anim_sniper2
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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#48
andrewjs18;24328 Wrote:
das;24327 Wrote:So basically you agree with Obama to let them in freely and do what ever they wish. When they start getting paid cash to do your job and your out of work keep that in mind OK? Then you you wont have to worry about adjusting your lifestyle you wont have one with no job. Then you will see how "easy" it is to go out, get an education to get a better job while trying to pay your bills and keep a roof over your head.

not quite.

first, I don't believe in invisible borders on a map that the state draws (except, of course, for physical borders).

second, as long as a private property owner is OK with people using their property to cross from one area to the next, I don't have any problems.

third, Mexicans more often than not do grunt work, like landscaping, cooking, cleaning, construction, and agricultural because that's the skills they have from their native country.

forth, stop being a protectionist! google it, youtube it...you're rants in this thread definitely confirm it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njIlZ2xYq0
I have not advocated for protectionists, if you cant comprehend that I guess I really shouldnt be suprised has you claim to be an anarchist but I dont think you really comprehend what real anarchy is because if you did, unless there is something unstable about you you wouldnt be advocating for it.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#49
billamj;24333 Wrote:
andrewjs18;24328 Wrote:not quite.

first, I don't believe in invisible borders on a map that the state draws (except, of course, for physical borders).

second, as long as a private property owner is OK with people using their property to cross from one area to the next, I don't have any problems.

third, Mexicans more often than not do grunt work, like landscaping, cooking, cleaning, construction, and agricultural because that's the skills they have from their native country.

forth, stop being a protectionist! google it, youtube it...you're rants in this thread definitely confirm it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njIlZ2xYq0

I don't think that anyone is totally against immigration however every nation has the right to decide how people are to enter and remain in said nation. Try illegally crossing Mexico's southern border and tell us what happened in 10 years when you get out of their prison.

Why should illegal immigrants be given a free pass to citizenship? There are thousands of legal immigrants who would like to become citizens but because they are following the rules they will have to wait years while a number of illegal immigrants are getting it granted them immediately. I seriously doubt that if you were following the rules and someone else, who cheated, was allowed in front of you that you would be happy.

I find the state to be immoral, so my answer and your answer would never mesh together.

frankly I'm opposed to 'free' anything for either illegals or legal citizens. I'd support the total abolition of welfare and any government program that takes from one and gives it to another with force.

das;24334 Wrote:
andrewjs18;24328 Wrote:not quite.

first, I don't believe in invisible borders on a map that the state draws (except, of course, for physical borders).

second, as long as a private property owner is OK with people using their property to cross from one area to the next, I don't have any problems.

third, Mexicans more often than not do grunt work, like landscaping, cooking, cleaning, construction, and agricultural because that's the skills they have from their native country.

forth, stop being a protectionist! google it, youtube it...you're rants in this thread definitely confirm it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njIlZ2xYq0
I have not advocated for protectionists, if you cant comprehend that I guess I really shouldnt be suprised has you claim to be an anarchist but I dont think you really comprehend what real anarchy is because if you did, unless there is something unstable about you you wouldnt be advocating for it.

yes, you do. 'a level playing field' means you want the state to prohibit certain actions, like people voluntarily hiring illegals to do work on their property. why are you against people freely entering into contracts with other human beings on a voluntary basis? do you not like liberty?

and yes, I'm an anarcho-capitalist and advocate for such. I believe the market can provide all services that the state currently provides in a cheaper, more efficient way with a better overall quality. history shows us what the state does when it gets tyrannical, and let me tell you, it's pretty scary when you look at the number of people that have been killed.

I forgot to link this in my earlier post, so here it is: http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/...l-freedom/
[Image: quotes.php]
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#50
andrewjs18;24335 Wrote:
billamj;24333 Wrote:I don't think that anyone is totally against immigration however every nation has the right to decide how people are to enter and remain in said nation. Try illegally crossing Mexico's southern border and tell us what happened in 10 years when you get out of their prison.

Why should illegal immigrants be given a free pass to citizenship? There are thousands of legal immigrants who would like to become citizens but because they are following the rules they will have to wait years while a number of illegal immigrants are getting it granted them immediately. I seriously doubt that if you were following the rules and someone else, who cheated, was allowed in front of you that you would be happy.

I find the state to be immoral, so my answer and your answer would never mesh together.

frankly I'm opposed to 'free' anything for either illegals or legal citizens. I'd support the total abolition of welfare and any government program that takes from one and gives it to another with force.

A state is an inanimate object and as such can be neither moral or immoral, much like a firearm can not be good or evil. It is all the intent of the people who are utilizing the object.

International law allows for nations to set standards for entry into their nation. We, just as every other nation on the planet, have such laws and standards. You may not like them but just like the vast majority of laws that you follow day to day they are still in effect and still need to be followed.
[Image: member955.png]
USAF (1976 -1986) NRA, GOA Anim_sniper2
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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