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Is the 5.56 Good Enough?
#11
Well, considering that it made rather a mess of people in battle from Viet Nam to today, and considering that it's been used by f'd up mass shooters to make messes of innocent civilians and children, it seems to me that it's perfectly adequate.

.30-06 makes a bigger hole, but what does it matter?

To quote The Bard:

No, 'tis not so deep as a well nor so wide as a church-door, but 'tis enough, 'twill serve. Ask for me tomorrow, and you shall find me a grave man.
gascolator, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2012.
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#12
gascolator;146962 Wrote:Well, considering that it made rather a mess of people in battle from Viet Nam to today, and considering that it's been used by f'd up mass shooters to make messes of innocent civilians and children, it seems to me that it's perfectly adequate.

.30-06 makes a bigger hole, but what does it matter?

To quote The Bard:

No, 'tis not so deep as a well nor so wide as a church-door, but 'tis enough, 'twill serve. Ask for me tomorrow, and you shall find me a grave man.
Good point. I looked up the wounds that the 5.56 makes, very nasty. I wouldnt have guessed that little bullet could be so nasty.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#13
My understanding from reading and discussing with a few active duty soldiers is the subject of the 5.56 round being inadequate boils down to pushing the 62gr steel core bullet through a 14.5 inch barrel at velocities well below the original intended design. When the bullet hits a soft target it just cuts clean through.

I've seen several places that state the M193 was considered to cause injuries that were too gruesome in the Vietnam era. My father in law has told me stories of severed arms cause by the M193 round. Obviously, I wasn't there and can't speak to any exaggeration that may or may not be taking place in said stories.

As I said in the other thread, I've seen photos of damage caused by the 5.56 cartridge. One case that comes to mind is a guy in the hospital that was shot in the leg. It looked more like he took a mortar round than anything else. The one that really left an impression on me though was photos taken from a cartel shootout in Mexico wherein the Police or whatever they are reportedly used Hornady TAP against gunmen in an SUV. It doesn't take much effort to find these pictures online for the curious minds, they are not pretty at all.
The law? The law is a human institution...
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#14
7.62x54r or bust!

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"As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God, protect my sweet ride."
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#15
Generally military ball ammo (M193 and M855) are extremely effective (far more than AK-47 or AK-74 for example) under 200 meters out of a 20" barrel, and even more so under 100 meters.

As the barrels get shorter the fragmentation range or intensity/range drops as well. It doesn't stop at a bright line, the effect reduces as velocity does then drops.

Once they get past the fragmentation range or pass through something that slows them down (like a barrier) the rounds flip over when they hit something and wobble like an AK-74 round but stay intact. Making fairly modest wounds, but still wounds that go very deep and are still rifle wounds.

The "thin individual" thing has been researched very well as has the "fleet yaw issue" - M855, especially out of shorter barrels, sometimes penetrates fairly deep before it fragments. What hasn't been discussed very well is the all too well known differences between M193 and M855. M193 has always had a reputation in practice and in controlled testing for more reliable and somewhat more violent fragmentation. While it is true to say that the effects are similar to M855, most of those comparisons were done with 20" barrels. That connection ("similar performance") has been maintained by extension but has not been involved in the testing of the thin individual and fleet yaw issues that generally did not exist before M855 and shorter barrels. This doesn't matter to the military and "external customers" of the testing groups because they are never going back to M193, but I think it has been a bit of a disservice for the civilian consumer of the information. Take some water jugs and hit them with M193 vs. M855 from your 14.5/16" barrel and I think you will see a difference.

The M16 worked because it had extreme firepower and wounding effects under 200 meters and could still pop you at 600 meters. The invention of the transistor meant that keeping the enemy out of practical AK range or 3rd world Communist conscript effective fire range was the primary role of the Infantry rifle. The only way to defeat our precise indirect fire and fire support was to close with us and our close range firepower is superior.

If you actually want better barrier performance on par with AK-47 you can switch calibers or use 5.56 bonded ammo which is probably a little better both in front of and behind most barriers than AK-47 ammo, albeit not as violent in front of the barrier as fragmenting ball ammo. The military also has new ammo supposed to be "barrier blind" and there is a corresponding civilian product, but again there is a little compromise. This is a small bullet and it will never do everything.

On the other hand, if you just don't like XM193 and just don't trust M855 out of your short barrel, you can get heavier 62-75 grain open-tip match style ammo such as TAP, Noslers, etc. that will typically fragment even more and at lower velocities.
I produced precise formulations for what you call, "Black Powder," for General Washington. If not for me, you would be speaking the Queen's English today. Say my name, which you cannot find with an internet search, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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