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Legislation Allowing Military Spouses To Purchase Handguns In States Where Stationed
#1
Okay, at the risk of safety for myself and my family, I'm coming out and telling you all: I'm a military spouse. My wife is a Certified Pediatric Nurse in the Navy. We're coming to PA because the Navy is paying for her Masters Degree.

While in PA we will be maintaining our residency in another state. Because of this my 2A Rights are infringed, such as my ability to purchase handguns. Well, a fix is in the works, and in asking you guys to call your politicians and ask them to support this legislation. It has not been assigned a bill number yet, but TTAG has done a story already, and it includes a link to the actual legislation. If you download the pdf you'll see is just a simple fix to the GCA of 1968.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/06...-congress/

Please support this legislation. My wife's service to this country should not impact my Constitutional Rights.
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#2
As a military spouse you should be able to purchase firearms in another state, but then again, so should anyone else. I'm always split on issues like this, because I support expanding of rights but I'm also against special treatment and protected classes.
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#3
I'm not a huge fan of carve outs either. Step into my shoes. Military spouses have be left behind everybody else and is just trying to catch up on their Right to purchase handguns for self defense where they live. Why should a spouse of a military service person be denied their 2A Rights? Furthermore, who here is familiar with ATF rule 80-21? Every FFL I've come across isn't aware of this rule regarding residency, thus every handgun I've purchased has also required a trip to and from Utah. That effectively doubles the purchase price. ATF rule 80-21 also permits nonresident college students to purchase handguns in the state they are attending school in.
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#4
Uinta Firearms;166793 Wrote:I'm not a huge fan of carve outs either. Step into my shoes. Military spouses have be left behind everybody else and is just trying to catch up on their Right to purchase handguns for self defense where they live. Why should a spouse of a military service person be denied their 2A Rights? Furthermore, who here is familiar with ATF rule 80-21? Every FFL I've come across isn't aware of this rule regarding residency, thus every handgun I've purchased has also required a trip to and from Utah. That effectively doubles the purchase price. ATF rule 80-21 also permits nonresident college students to purchase handguns in the state they are attending school in.

Yeah, that is shitty, but why not push for those rights for everyone?
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#5
How are your rights being "infringed", when you are the one choosing to maintain residency status in another state, rather than becoming a legal "resident" here, where you actually reside? Seems like you are doing that voluntarily, with the trade-off being the loss of ability to purchase a firearm while you are here.

I agree that you should be able to buy any type of firearm, in any state, just like the rest of us should be able to.
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#6
I thought you already could?

From the ATF FAQ pages

Quote:If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State.
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#7
(06-18-2015, 05:49 PM)bac0nfat Wrote:
Uinta Firearms;166793 Wrote:I'm not a huge fan of carve outs either. Step into my shoes. Military spouses have be left behind everybody else and is just trying to catch up on their Right to purchase handguns for self defense where they live. Why should a spouse of a military service person be denied their 2A Rights? Furthermore, who here is familiar with ATF rule 80-21? Every FFL I've come across isn't aware of this rule regarding residency, thus every handgun I've purchased has also required a trip to and from Utah. That effectively doubles the purchase price. ATF rule 80-21 also permits nonresident college students to purchase handguns in the state they are attending school in.

Yeah, that is shitty, but why not push for those rights for everyone?

I am doing what I can. Start somewhere and build upon it. Btw, there was a lawsuit ruled on in Texas where DC residents have successfully argued this. Momentum is building.
(06-18-2015, 06:05 PM)gnbrotz Wrote: How are your rights being "infringed", when you are the one choosing to maintain residency status in another state, rather than becoming a legal "resident" here, where you actually reside? Seems like you are doing that voluntarily, with the trade-off being the loss of ability to purchase a firearm while you are here.

I agree that you should be able to buy any type of firearm, in any state, just like the rest of us should be able to.
Please go read 50 USC §501-593.

Would you argue the same about military personnel? How would you like to deal with the fees and taxes surrounding changing residency, vehicle registrations where you'd often pay 2 registration fees for the same vehicles in the same years, income tax filings in multiple states, etc. Have you ever had to file taxes in a different state than your spouse? The Military Spouse Residency Relief Act simplifies all of this, thus allowing my family to maintain as close to normal standards that you get to enjoy daily.
(06-18-2015, 09:08 PM)ivwarrior Wrote: I thought you already could?

From the ATF FAQ pages

Quote:If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State.
Are you an FFL? Are you willing to sell me handguns based on this? If so, I'll buy. As of yet, I haven't found one in any state that will do this, even when my dependant id card lists my wife as my sponsor, and a copy of her orders reveals we are stationed in that state.

Btw, can you define what a resident is under PA law? As far as I'm aware, I wouldn't qualify for resident status until I obtained a PA license.
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#8
Uinta Firearms;166809 Wrote:Would you argue the same about military personnel?

I would.

Uinta Firearms;166809 Wrote:How would you like to deal with the fees and taxes surrounding changing residency, vehicle registrations where you'd often pay 2 registration fees for the same vehicles in the same years, income tax filings in multiple states, etc. Have you ever had to file taxes in a different state than your spouse?

Have done all of the above as a part of several "civilian" decisions to relocate. It's part of the calculation when considering when/if the relocation is a worthwhile effort. I understand that military personnel can be relocated other than when they voluntarily make that decision, but that's a known fact of military service, and should be considered at the time of enlistment. I get that being in the military is a sacrifice of many 'normal' parts of civilian life, but it is a voluntary choice, as is becoming a military spouse.

Uinta Firearms;166809 Wrote:Are you an FFL? Are you willing to sell me handguns based on this? If so, I'll buy. As of yet, I haven't found one in any state that will do this, even when my dependant id card lists my wife as my sponsor, and a copy of her orders reveals we are stationed in that state.

If you can't find a FFL to complete what appears to be a legal transaction *now*, what makes you think you will have any different results if new legislation is passed?

Uinta Firearms;166809 Wrote:Btw, can you define what a resident is under PA law? As far as I'm aware, I wouldn't qualify for resident status until I obtained a PA license.

Having a PA license is not the only way to establish legal residency.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/004/ch...s95.2.html
Quote:§ 95.2. Residence requirements.

(a) Resident defined. A resident is a person who resides, and who has manifested the intent to continue to reside in this Commonwealth or a former resident of this Commonwealth who meets the criteria in paragraph (2)(i) or (ii).

(1) Evidence of intent to continue to reside in this Commonwealth includes the following:

(i) Rent, lease or purchase of a property which the applicant has made a primary residence in this Commonwealth.

(ii) Payment of State and local taxes.

(iii) Registration of personal property, such as bank accounts, stocks, and bonds and automobiles within this Commonwealth.

(iv) Possession of a current Pennsylvania driver’s license.

(v) Current registration to vote in this Commonwealth.
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#9
(06-19-2015, 04:13 PM)gnbrotz Wrote: [quote=Uinta Firearms;166809]Would you argue the same about military personnel?

I would.[/quote]

Imo, that's fair, even if I do disagree.
(06-19-2015, 04:13 PM)gnbrotz Wrote: [quote=Uinta Firearms;166809]How would you like to deal with the fees and taxes surrounding changing residency, vehicle registrations where you'd often pay 2 registration fees for the same vehicles in the same years, income tax filings in multiple states, etc. Have you ever had to file taxes in a different state than your spouse?

Have done all of the above as a part of several "civilian" decisions to relocate. It's part of the calculation when considering when/if the relocation is a worthwhile effort. I understand that military personnel can be relocated other than when they voluntarily make that decision, but that's a known fact of military service[/b], and should be considered at the time of enlistment. I get that being in the military is a sacrifice of many 'normal' parts of civilian life, but it is a voluntary choice, as is becoming a military spouse.[/quote]

1) See bolded and underlined part.

2) She's commissioned. I know. Not a big deal, and it doesn't change a thing, but I wanted to make sure she received credit where it's due.

3) The only decision I made in becoming a military spouse was to not divorce her. We got married in mid-2005. She commissioned in the Navy in late-2008. Imo, it would have very shitty of me (or any spouse) to get a divorce just because my spouse took on a new job. What do you think?

Uinta Firearms;166809 Wrote:Are you an FFL? Are you willing to sell me handguns based on this? If so, I'll buy. As of yet, I haven't found one in any state that will do this, even when my dependant id card lists my wife as my sponsor, and a copy of her orders reveals we are stationed in that state.

If you can't find a FFL to complete what appears to be a legal transaction *now*, what makes you think you will have any different results if new legislation is passed?[/quote]

It's called "Federal Law".

(06-19-2015, 04:13 PM)gnbrotz Wrote: [quote=Uinta Firearms;166809]Btw, can you define what a resident is under PA law? As far as I'm aware, I wouldn't qualify for resident status until I obtained a PA license.

Having a PA license is not the only way to establish legal residency.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/004/ch...s95.2.html
Quote:§ 95.2. Residence requirements.

(a) Resident defined. A resident is a person who resides, and who has manifested the intent to continue to reside in this Commonwealth or a former resident of this Commonwealth who meets the criteria in paragraph (2)(i) or (ii).

(1) Evidence of intent to continue to reside in this Commonwealth includes the following:

(i) Rent, lease or purchase of a property which the applicant has made a primary residence in this Commonwealth.

(ii) Payment of State and local taxes.

(iii) Registration of personal property, such as bank accounts, stocks, and bonds and automobiles within this Commonwealth.

(iv) Possession of a current Pennsylvania driver’s license.

(v) Current registration to vote in this Commonwealth.

The only one of those I would satisfy is (i). What about (iii)-(v)? Also, your citation quotes paragraph (1), not paragraph (2).

Vehicles will continue to be registered and licensed in Utah.

Bank account is out of Virginia, although there is a branch near Feasterville-Trevose.

Driver's license will be out of Utah.

Registered to vote in Utah.

Taxes will be paid to Utah. If PA does withhold income taxes they must return 100% of the funds when I file the state form, pursuant to the Military Spouse Residency Relief Act. Virginia withheld and then returned the money after filing for a return. Illinois never collected (after submitting the Illinois W-5NR tax form).

So, again I say, is there an FFL in or near Feasterville-Trevose that will sell me a handgun, given the above info and I provide proof? I'm looking at both a Glock 41 and a stripped lower for an AR-15 (I want to build a 9mm M-4).

Bueller? Bueller? :crickets:
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