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LTCF
#11
Curious about this too, my LTCF in Wyoming county was an 8x4 piece of notarized paper, and he shrunk it and notarized itsoicould carry one in my wallet. I added packing tape to keep it from getting destroyed, but I would hope the new one is more durable than that. And, it has no picture either.

camper
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#12
(09-07-2012, 04:22 AM)soberbyker Wrote:
(09-06-2012, 10:32 PM)dgood71 Wrote: So what's the significance of "the changeover"? Different cards? Or a uniform license card across the state or something? I know each county used to have a different format for the license... some paper, some plastic. What changed?

(09-06-2012, 10:45 PM)mrjam2jab Wrote: all of the cards were "supposed" to be the same the whole time. The change over was where every county was issued the same computer to print the cards. Now all the counties really do issue the same card. From what I hear it's not quite paper but not quite plastic either.

This computer also stores your picture and captures your signature.

The most significant change for me was all counties now charge $20 for a LTCF, they were anywhere from $20 to $46 before the change. Also the new card is laminated paper, very flimsy, the old card (in DELCO) was a credit card type plastic.

Our old card was like a credit card also. BTW I did my renewal about two weeks before it expired. The sheriff sent me the "reminder" the day after it would have expired. Really on the ball huh?
.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#13
(09-07-2012, 11:12 PM)IronSight Wrote: What really has happened is that control over the issuing process left the hands of the state legislature after Act 66 of 2005, although in reality they had given up most control long before that.

See, state law was pretty clear that the license was "designed to be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be in a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police" (18 Pa.C.S. § 6109(e)(3)) and the Pennsylvania State Police had designed the license to be a 3X5 paper card that could be laminated (037 Pa. Code § 33.115). Act 66 of 2005 did not change this, but it did insist that "The Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency shall implement, within five years of the effective date of this paragraph, a system in conjunction with the Pennsylvania State Police and the Pennsylvania Sheriffs' Association to standardize and modernize the process of issuing licenses to carry firearms" (18 Pa.C.S. § 6109(h)(2)(i)).

However, what the PCCD did was create (without telling anyone publicly) the License to Carry Advisory Committee composed of some Sheriffs, two representatives from the Philadelphia Police Department, members of the PA Sheriffs' Association, and a member of the Pennsylvania State Police Firearms Section. This committee held its meetings in secret, arguably in violate of PA's sunshine laws, and decided upon how the new system would be designed. Documents I obtained about what this committee discussed reveal that they knew full well about the fact that the system was supposed to be uniform, but that it was not. Other documents I have also reveal that while the advisory committee was secretly deciding to make the licensing process more difficult for non-residents by instituting the needless and pointless "in-person" requirement that they had no authority to add (not by law at least) Sheriffs were busy trying out different forms of licenses, some with blessing from the state police, others on their own. None of these license forms were properly authorized either by law or by regulation.


A few years ago several individuals made front page news headlines in Lehigh County and Bucks County by publicly challenging our Sheriffs on their incorrect licensing fees. Behind the scenes I had also supplied PA State Representative Gary Day with a wealth of information on county processes that differed from state law. Firearms Owners Against Crime, PAC, members also spread this information around to dozens of key state legislative offices. Initially the PA Sheriffs Association backed the Sheriffs who were issuing wrong licenses and charging the wrong amount for them. However, the head of the PA Sheriffs Association, in a discussion with Representative Day, decided that the proper course of action was to follow state law and the agency issued a letter to every single county sheriff directing them to switch to the proper fee and issue the proper form of license. The Pennsylvania State Police has yet to correctly write the regulations for the new form of license, but the issuance of it is rather uniform now. When the $5 modernization fee sunset we had nearly 100% compliance on the fee requirements of the law, although other issues remain.

Representative Gary Day wrote and introduced a bill, which actually passed unanimously out of committee, just before the funds from that modernization fee went into the State Treasury, attempting to put the money back into the counties from which it came. The problem was that the bill had severe flaws, there was a deadline that could not be beaten legislatively, and despite the attempt of the Lt. Governor, FOAC, and Representative Day to come up with a new proposal in time it was just too late and all the unused funds went into the State Treasury. The "modernization" process resulted in very little actual advancement, but it did waste millions of taxpayer dollars, shifted decisions on LTCF issuance away from the legislature and into the hands of committee members (some of whom publicly back new anti-gun laws), and left us with a system that is still fractured and definitively not uniform despite what state law may say.

So in essence, state law is clear on a need for uniformity, but those who choose whether or not the process is uniform are in positions where it is politically difficult to enforce proper procedures. County controllers won't condemn the law-breaking, District Attorneys won't prosecute it, and state legislative officials refuse to act to correct it.
Yeah...what he said. Big Grin

Welcome Dave.
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#14
(09-07-2012, 04:22 AM)soberbyker Wrote:
(09-06-2012, 10:32 PM)dgood71 Wrote: So what's the significance of "the changeover"? Different cards? Or a uniform license card across the state or something? I know each county used to have a different format for the license... some paper, some plastic. What changed?

(09-06-2012, 10:45 PM)mrjam2jab Wrote: all of the cards were "supposed" to be the same the whole time. The change over was where every county was issued the same computer to print the cards. Now all the counties really do issue the same card. From what I hear it's not quite paper but not quite plastic either.

This computer also stores your picture and captures your signature.

The most significant change for me was all counties now charge $20 for a LTCF, they were anywhere from $20 to $46 before the change. Also the new card is laminated paper, very flimsy, the old card (in DELCO) was a credit card type plastic.

My old Cumberland County LTCF card (issued something like 8 years ago) was a credit-card style plastic document, however the surface apparently wasn't coated in any way and gradually began to wear away in my wallet. My current doc (from Dauphin County) is the now-uniform style, and although it seems a little flimsier and clunkier it's also less susceptible to being worn away through surface abrasion. So all-in-all an improvement, even if though doesn't look quite as modern on the day of issue.
.
I am not a lawyer.
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#15
(09-06-2012, 09:17 PM)flyboyEMT Wrote: I just got my LTCF renewed, the Sheriff was out of the cards to print it there so they had to mail it to me. I noticed it is marked as new not renewal in the boxes at the top, doesn't bother me because, just thought it odd that they would make a mistake. Confused

Yep, same thing when I renewed in Feb. Now I know why.
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#16
(09-08-2012, 12:34 AM)sk8r101all Wrote:
(09-06-2012, 09:17 PM)flyboyEMT Wrote: I just got my LTCF renewed, the Sheriff was out of the cards to print it there so they had to mail it to me. I noticed it is marked as new not renewal in the boxes at the top, doesn't bother me because, just thought it odd that they would make a mistake. Confused

Yep, same thing when I renewed in Feb. Now I know why.


I renewed my early this year in DELCO, "Renewal" is marked.
.
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#17
(09-07-2012, 02:05 PM)soberbyker Wrote:
(09-07-2012, 09:20 AM)Chazman321 Wrote: Mine is made like a Driver's License, just without the reflective coating...


-Chaz

Did you get that before or after May, 2011?

.


Bucks County here, issued 08/XX/2010

Credit card style plastic, holographic reflective film cover on front.
NuclearSociety, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#18
The old style, which was on driver's license quality stock here in Allegheny Co., was a lot sturdier than the renewal one I got in August.  The new one looks like something they threw together & laminated down at Kinkos or Office Max! Confused
The War Wagon, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012. Anim_banana

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