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M14/M1A
#1
Hey curious as to are there any major difference between a M14 and the M1A? Also from what i have seen M1As are friggen expensive and I was wondering if it is possible to find 60s era M14s for a more reasonable price. Any other info you can give me on these is appreciated.
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#2
The Hobbit;38167 Wrote:Hey curious as to are there any major difference between a M14 and the M1A? Also from what i have seen M1As are friggen expensive and I was wondering if it is possible to find 60s era M14s for a more reasonable price. Any other info you can give me on these is appreciated.

If you do find a True 60s era M14 you will shit bricks when you seen the price. A M14 has a selector switch. So unless you find a "broken" or modified one you are better off paying for the M1A.

That's is my limited knowledge on the situation.
"What you're feeling now ain't the worst pain. The worst thing is not feeling the hurt anymore."
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#3
spartakis252;38176 Wrote:
The Hobbit;38167 Wrote:Hey curious as to are there any major difference between a M14 and the M1A? Also from what i have seen M1As are friggen expensive and I was wondering if it is possible to find 60s era M14s for a more reasonable price. Any other info you can give me on these is appreciated.

If you do find a True 60s era M14 you will shit bricks when you seen the price. A M14 has a selector switch. So unless you find a "broken" or modified one you are better off paying for the M1A.

That's is my limited knowledge on the situation.

Guess while I did know about that feature it slipped my mind. Guess with that in mind I might as well get myself the M1A lol.
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#4
Legally, the only guns that can be called M1A are the rifles built by Springfield Armory. They actually own the name. It was never a military designation. The early Springfields were built on new receivers with GI surplus parts. Any variation of the semi auto M14s will be pricey. There are some Norincos out there that are a bit cheaper but they're not the same quality as the SA rifles. Fulton Armory is another builder of these kinds of rifles.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
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#5
Warpt762x39;38194 Wrote:Legally, the only guns that can be called M1A are the rifles built by Springfield Armory. They actually own the name. It was never a military designation. The early Springfields were built on new receivers with GI surplus parts. Any variation of the semi auto M14s will be pricey. There are some Norincos out there that are a bit cheaper but they're not the same quality as the SA rifles. Fulton Armory is another builder of these kinds of rifles.
I have heard of the norincos, but I would rather get a quality gun rather then a chinese knock off. Figured they would all be about the same price was just hoping there were surplus options.
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#6
spartakis252;38176 Wrote:A M14 has a selector switch. So unless you find a "broken" or modified one you are better off paying for the M1A.

That's is my limited knowledge on the situation.

once a machine gun, always a machine gun, as per the batf&e.
the fabrication doesn't stop in the shop, that's what the field guys are for.
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#7
The Norincos aren't horrible. They're just not as good as the Springfield or Fulton Armories. The Canadians love the crap out of them but then again, the Canadians can still import guns from China. They've got the QBZ-95 clones and already have Tavors from Israel.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
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#8
Warpt762x39;38194 Wrote:Legally, the only guns that can be called M1A are the rifles built by Springfield Armory. They actually own the name. It was never a military designation. The early Springfields were built on new receivers with GI surplus parts. Any variation of the semi auto M14s will be pricey. There are some Norincos out there that are a bit cheaper but they're not the same quality as the SA rifles. Fulton Armory is another builder of these kinds of rifles.

This mirrors my understanding as well. Generally, most domestic-made M14s are at least decent, with the possible exception of the late Fed-Ord. When Armscorp (Baltimore, MD...NOT the Philippine Armscor) was producing M14s, their M14 was marked M14, as were a few others.

I have an Armscorp M14, and it lives up to the M14 reputation. And that it eats cheaper milsurp 7.62x51 doesn't hurt, either.

FWIW, .gov disabled the full auto feature on most M14s, so a commercial rendering will be about the same as Uncle Sam's in terms of functional equivalence.

Due to general ignorance, I really didn't fully appreciate them until I read a detailed account of the M14s history.

[Image: m14-1.jpg]
Armscorp M14, still with the brown preservative right after purchase.

[Image: M14-plastic_stock.jpg]
M14 with plastic stock.

WRT to Chinese M14s, opinions and comments wary wildly. Fulton originally bashed them unilaterally, then gave just the receiver their blessing. Now, Fulton's website appears to be mute on the topic. In the 1990s, Clint McKee was a rec.guns regular. Here's his 1995 broadside on the topic:

Quote: Clint McKee's post follows
From: wcmckee@ix.netcom.com (Clint McKee)
Newsgroups:
rec.guns
Subject: Re: Polytech M-14S PROBLEM?
Date: 21 Sep 1995 10:12:18 -0400
ttt@gate.net (20/20 Technologies) writes: I've got a Polytech M14S (.308 semi auto). I've heard conflicting reports that there may be a weakness in the receiver metal, and that someone out in Cal. is charging $150 to reharden the receiver. Does anyone know if this design flaw is for real? I haven't fired the weapon yet, and am wondering if I should have it serviced first. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Lee & Group! It is our considered opinion that *all* Chinese M14 clones are *unsafe to fire* in their original condition.. The major problems are: 1. The bolts are much too soft & the helix angle on the bolt lugs are flat wrong. These 2 maladies together cause the bolt to collapse against the receiver lugs and excessive headspace occurs. Possible catastrophic failure. 2. Overall bolt body/firing pin geometery is wrong. The M14 has several "fail safe" designs, including a firing pin bridge that *retracts* the firing pin on loading a live round until the bolt is in/near battery. The Chinese bolts are so long that the firing pin tail barely/does not engage the bridge, thereby preventing proper firing pin retraction. Catastrophic failure is again encouraged. 3. Hammer &, trigger & sear are too soft. Premature wear will ensue (as little as 1000 rounds) causing a dangerous & possibly catastrophic failure. To properly remedy these flaws, the bolt must be replaced with a G.I. bolt & properly fitted to the receiver. Unfortunately, a G.I. spec barrel must also be installed to accomodate proper fitment of the bolt. Several other barrel components must also be replaced to accomodate thread differences. The Chinese hammer &, trigger & sear must also be replaced with G.I. parts. Properly done, these repairs will usually transform the Chinese rifles into a fine, reliable M14 clone. Much has been said re the receivers. Metalurgically, only time will tell. No one really knows exactly what kind of steel they are made from. I can say that I have seen *no* significant, unusual or premature wear patterns in these receivers. It is the parts mentioned above that fail. I can also tell you that the geometery of the receivers, generally, are exquisite. Not good, but remarkable. Op rod fitment with a G.I. op rod is absolutely incredible. Better than *any* population of receivers I've ever seen. With the chinese rods, generally satisfactory. Firing pin retraction with a G.I. bolt & firing pin is absolutely complete. Sometimes, you need a somewhat worn pin, because it's too effective. Again, better than any receiver population I've seen. Rear sight elevation & windage geometery is also excellent, though some G.I. windage knobs will not fit the cams just right. The older Garand windage Knobs seem to be the best. There's more, but enough has been said on this. AS FAR AS RE-HEAT TREATING, FORGET IT! This will not solve the geometery problems, & can create an embrittled handgrenade. It's not only a waste of money, it's potentially dangerous. Fulton Armory specializes *only* in the M14/M1A, M1 Garand & M1 Carbine. We offer a Chinese upgrade package starting @ about $350.00 + shipping. We offer parts, accessories, service, tools, gauges, books, etc. Call the shop for further info, or send your snail mail address & I'll send out some stuff. Thanks for the time. I hope I've helped a little.
Clint
Fulton Armory
8725 Bollman Place,#1
Savage, MD. 20763
301-490-9485 M-F, 9-5:30 EST
301-490-9547 24 HR Fax

source
Subject matter expert on questions no one's asking.
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#9
A better option, although slightly more expensive would be to get an M14 parts kit and send it to a place like LRB arms to be assembled into a rifle using one of their receivers.

http://www.lrbarms.com
glocke12, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#10
glocke12;39049 Wrote:A better option, although slightly more expensive would be to get an M14 parts kit and send it to a place like LRB arms to be assembled into a rifle using one of their receivers.

http://www.lrbarms.com
Out of curiosity why is a parts kit a better option? All GI parts and better fit finish I assume?

If that is the case could i not just buy an M1A and upgrade the non GI parts to GI parts if/when they fail?

As it is I am not going to be able to afford a springfield for probably a year atleast, much less one of the fulton armory models.
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