pa2a.org


Share Thread:  
Michael Berry: Stand Up To Muslims Or Sit Down
#11
andrewjs18;18367 Wrote:
longcall911;18331 Wrote:Actually, I liked it!

Sure it was a little extreme, which is like being a little pregnant, but his basic point of "you'd better stand up to this crap" was a good one, IMO.

Yes, he did compare muslims to pedophiles, but in the context of "we don't pander to pedophiles, why do we pander to muslims". I don't think he was implying that muslims are pedophiles, but rather, was trying to make the point that we don't pander to people who wish to hurt us. Making the comparison to pedophiles was a bad example and leaves room for it to be taken as an accusation. He'd have been better saying 'we don't pander to the KKK which wants to kill blacks, we don't pander to Neo-Nazis who want to kill jews, why pander to muslim terrorists who want to kill all Americans".

I haven't watched the video, but if what you're saying is accurate, he'd be better off stating that he doesn't pander to religious zealots.

Zealots are not the problem. Radical Islamists are the problem.

I haven't seen any moderate Islamists try to kill us. But, I have seen radicals kill plenty. His point is, we must stand up to them or stop complaining & whining.
support the agenda to get national reciprocity
Small Business Consulting
Reply
#12
longcall911;18402 Wrote:
andrewjs18;18367 Wrote:I haven't watched the video, but if what you're saying is accurate, he'd be better off stating that he doesn't pander to religious zealots.

Zealots are not the problem. Radical Islamists are the problem.

I haven't seen any moderate Islamists try to kill us. But, I have seen radicals kill plenty. His point is, we must stand up to them or stop complaining & whining.

actually, zealots ARE the problem. Zealots try to impose their life style and what they think is right onto others, thus violating my liberty to live my life how I want to live it, not how someone thinks I should live.

If anyone tries to kill another human being, that human being has a right to defend them self.
[Image: quotes.php]
Reply
#13
andrewjs18;18415 Wrote:actually, zealots ARE the problem. Zealots try to impose their life style and what they think is right onto others, thus violating my liberty to live my life how I want to live it, not how someone thinks I should live.

If anyone tries to kill another human being, that human being has a right to defend them self.

While I agree fully that those who attempt to impose their beliefs on others are a problem, they are not the target of the above video. There is an absolute distinction between attempting to impose a belief system, and using physical force or threat of physical force to do so.

We can walk away from those who simply wish to persuade us. I have, many times. If that is the end of the interaction, no liberty has been infringed because liberty does not mean having the right to not be bothered or offended, right?
support the agenda to get national reciprocity
Small Business Consulting
Reply
#14
andrewjs18;18415 Wrote:
longcall911;18402 Wrote:Zealots are not the problem. Radical Islamists are the problem.

I haven't seen any moderate Islamists try to kill us. But, I have seen radicals kill plenty. His point is, we must stand up to them or stop complaining & whining.

actually, zealots ARE the problem. Zealots try to impose their life style and what they think is right onto others, thus violating my liberty to live my life how I want to live it, not how someone thinks I should live.

If anyone tries to kill another human being, that human being has a right to defend them self.

The
Video
Was
About
MUSLIM
Zealots

Same as PC zealots who want everything else blamed but the ACTUAL target: zealot muslims. And it isn't racism, it's the damned "plain as the nose on your face" TRUTH.

Dancing around that fact will only make you tired, and the Muslim zealot stronger.
[Image: incubi+INK.jpg]. ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN no diff
Reply
#15
longcall911;18464 Wrote:
andrewjs18;18415 Wrote:actually, zealots ARE the problem. Zealots try to impose their life style and what they think is right onto others, thus violating my liberty to live my life how I want to live it, not how someone thinks I should live.

If anyone tries to kill another human being, that human being has a right to defend them self.

While I agree fully that those who attempt to impose their beliefs on others are a problem, they are not the target of the above video. There is an absolute distinction between attempting to impose a belief system, and using physical force or threat of physical force to do so.

We can walk away from those who simply wish to persuade us. I have, many times. If that is the end of the interaction, no liberty has been infringed because liberty does not mean having the right to not be bothered or offended, right?

While I agree that Islamic radicals are much more likely to commit violence in the name of their religion, it's Christian fundamentalists that are a bigger threat to my way of life simply because there are so many of them in this country. Christians have used the threat of violence from government to abridge my freedom and liberty for as long as I can remember.
Deal_me_in, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
Reply
#16
Deal_me_in;18663 Wrote:
longcall911;18464 Wrote:While I agree fully that those who attempt to impose their beliefs on others are a problem, they are not the target of the above video. There is an absolute distinction between attempting to impose a belief system, and using physical force or threat of physical force to do so.

We can walk away from those who simply wish to persuade us. I have, many times. If that is the end of the interaction, no liberty has been infringed because liberty does not mean having the right to not be bothered or offended, right?

While I agree that Islamic radicals are much more likely to commit violence in the name of their religion, it's Christian fundamentalists that are a bigger threat to my way of life simply because there are so many of them in this country. Christians have used the threat of violence from government to abridge my freedom and liberty for as long as I can remember.
And what might that be? What way of life are they threatening? It's a broad accusation you make, how is it manifested?
[Image: incubi+INK.jpg]. ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN no diff
Reply
#17
longcall911;18464 Wrote:
andrewjs18;18415 Wrote:actually, zealots ARE the problem. Zealots try to impose their life style and what they think is right onto others, thus violating my liberty to live my life how I want to live it, not how someone thinks I should live.

If anyone tries to kill another human being, that human being has a right to defend them self.

While I agree fully that those who attempt to impose their beliefs on others are a problem, they are not the target of the above video. There is an absolute distinction between attempting to impose a belief system, and using physical force or threat of physical force to do so.

We can walk away from those who simply wish to persuade us. I have, many times. If that is the end of the interaction, no liberty has been infringed because liberty does not mean having the right to not be bothered or offended, right?

what exactly do you think religious zealots in this country do when they try to get the state to pass specific laws? is that not using force to accomplish their ends?

sure, liberty does not insulate someone from being bothered or offended, but it does bother me when someone tries to get laws passed that may affect how I live my life, when I'm not causing any harm to another individual or their property.

Spacemanvic;18515 Wrote:
andrewjs18;18415 Wrote:actually, zealots ARE the problem. Zealots try to impose their life style and what they think is right onto others, thus violating my liberty to live my life how I want to live it, not how someone thinks I should live.

If anyone tries to kill another human being, that human being has a right to defend them self.

The
Video
Was
About
MUSLIM
Zealots

Same as PC zealots who want everything else blamed but the ACTUAL target: zealot muslims. And it isn't racism, it's the damned "plain as the nose on your face" TRUTH.

Dancing around that fact will only make you tired, and the Muslim zealot stronger.

I know the video is about Muslim Zealots, but being crazed about a particular religion makes him looks like a bigot.
[Image: quotes.php]
Reply
#18
andrewjs18;18804 Wrote:
longcall911;18464 Wrote:While I agree fully that those who attempt to impose their beliefs on others are a problem, they are not the target of the above video. There is an absolute distinction between attempting to impose a belief system, and using physical force or threat of physical force to do so.

We can walk away from those who simply wish to persuade us. I have, many times. If that is the end of the interaction, no liberty has been infringed because liberty does not mean having the right to not be bothered or offended, right?

what exactly do you think religious zealots in this country do when they try to get the state to pass specific laws? is that not using force to accomplish their ends?

sure, liberty does not insulate someone from being bothered or offended, but it does bother me when someone tries to get laws passed that may affect how I live my life, when I'm not causing any harm to another individual or their property.

Spacemanvic;18515 Wrote:The
Video
Was
About
MUSLIM
Zealots

Same as PC zealots who want everything else blamed but the ACTUAL target: zealot muslims. And it isn't racism, it's the damned "plain as the nose on your face" TRUTH.

Dancing around that fact will only make you tired, and the Muslim zealot stronger.

I know the video is about Muslim Zealots, but being crazed about a particular religion makes him looks like a bigot.
And he is "crazed" about Islam why?
[Image: incubi+INK.jpg]. ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN no diff
Reply
#19
andrewjs18;18804 Wrote:
longcall911;18464 Wrote:While I agree fully that those who attempt to impose their beliefs on others are a problem, they are not the target of the above video. There is an absolute distinction between attempting to impose a belief system, and using physical force or threat of physical force to do so.

We can walk away from those who simply wish to persuade us. I have, many times. If that is the end of the interaction, no liberty has been infringed because liberty does not mean having the right to not be bothered or offended, right?

what exactly do you think religious zealots in this country do when they try to get the state to pass specific laws? is that not using force to accomplish their ends?

sure, liberty does not insulate someone from being bothered or offended, but it does bother me when someone tries to get laws passed that may affect how I live my life, when I'm not causing any harm to another individual or their property.

Andrew, perhaps you should re-read my post. I acknowledged that religious zealots are "a" problem, but that they are not "the" problem that is the subject of the video.

So, if you wish to have a separate discussion on religious zealotry, perhaps a new thread is on order. To set the stage for such a thread, I will offer that clearly, all laws are restrictive by nature, and therefore usually deny some person some choice at some point. Now I understand that as an anarchist, you prefer no laws at all. However, AFAIK every country on earth has at least some laws. Most people on earth accept that laws, since they are predictable, are not generally threats to freedom. Instead, most accept the classic definition that freedom is the independence of, or the absence of the arbitrary will of others, especially will that is imposed by physical force, or the threat of physical force. Slavery would be a clear example of being subject to the arbitrary will of others. Childhood might as well.

If you accept that as a definition, then people trying to get laws passed are not threats because laws are not arbitrary. You may not like the laws, but freedom is not freedom from things you don't like. Freedom is not "free to do what I want, when I want, and with whom I want" at least not in terms of civilization's view of freedom.
support the agenda to get national reciprocity
Small Business Consulting
Reply
#20
Spacemanvic;18759 Wrote:
Deal_me_in;18663 Wrote:While I agree that Islamic radicals are much more likely to commit violence in the name of their religion, it's Christian fundamentalists that are a bigger threat to my way of life simply because there are so many of them in this country. Christians have used the threat of violence from government to abridge my freedom and liberty for as long as I can remember.
And what might that be? What way of life are they threatening? It's a broad accusation you make, how is it manifested?

They support legislation that disallows behavior that doesn't harm anyone. Vice laws, prohibition laws, anti-gambling laws are all the result of religious influence on government. The flawed logic behind these laws is the same flawed logic that allows people to believe in things without good evidence.

I would very much like to go buy some beer this Sunday and play some online poker tournaments. I will not be able to because it's illegal to buy beer on Sunday in my state and the federal government has effectively banned online poker. I'm sure you don't care about my desire to play online poker and laugh it off as insignificant, but that's only because it isn't something that you like that got banned.

I'm not even going to get into the abortion and stem cell research discussion, but suffice to say I'm not a fan of religious groups positions on these issues as well.
Deal_me_in, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
Reply






Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  You Won’t Believe How Many Muslims the Democrats Want to Relocate to America das 2 1,276 06-01-2015, 06:54 AM
Last Post: pinhead1979
  Why Is Obama Treating Christians Different Than Muslims? das 3 1,184 03-08-2015, 08:23 PM
Last Post: Emoticon
  This State Banned Sharia Law – Now Muslims and Liberals Are Outraged das 110 9,681 12-19-2014, 07:16 PM
Last Post: DeadEye
  Report: Michael Hastings Was Investigating CIA Director John Brennan Pocketprotector 2 985 08-13-2013, 06:05 PM
Last Post: Pocketprotector
  Really Interesting Article about Florida 'Stand Your Ground' Actual Cases dc dalton 1 789 07-18-2013, 07:26 AM
Last Post: Pocketprotector



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Software by MyBB, © 2002-2015 MyBB Group.
Template by Modogodo Design.