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Monroe County 'Test Case' Person Needed To Try and Stop Extra Requirements
#1
Spent a half hour on the phone with Phil Kline today (GunLawer) about the extra requirements Monroe county sheriff Todd Martin demands to accept an application for a LTCF.

For those that don't know he requires a second form of identification (your local tax return) to even accept the application, knowing full well if he denied someone for not having it after accepting it he would be in violation of the law.

He has offered an hour pro bono IF we can find the right person.

What we need is someone that has recently moved here and has not yet received the local tax form from Berkheimer but can prove residency by some other means.

The must also be (of course) legal and able to pass a background check. Basically the only thing we want 'wrong' with the candidate is no tax form.

What he will have that person do is attempt to get them to accept the application and be turned down. Once that happens he will then get all the details and speak with the sheriff.

Unfortunately this is going to be a case by case thing, he sees no cause for class action with this so the point is wearing the sheriff down.
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#2
Can you comment as to why someone who has not yet received a tax statement is preferable to an existing resident who has it, but doesn't wish to provide it?
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#3
Ugh! I think I'm starting to get a headache after seeing the word "Berkheimer." Sad
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#4
gnbrotz;114157 Wrote:Can you comment as to why someone who has not yet received a tax statement is preferable to an existing resident who has it, but doesn't wish to provide it?

Interested in the answer to this question as well.
The law? The law is a human institution...
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#5
gnbrotz;114157 Wrote:Can you comment as to why someone who has not yet received a tax statement is preferable to an existing resident who has it, but doesn't wish to provide it?

csmith;114167 Wrote:
gnbrotz;114157 Wrote:Can you comment as to why someone who has not yet received a tax statement is preferable to an existing resident who has it, but doesn't wish to provide it?

Interested in the answer to this question as well.

You got PMs...
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

William Pitt
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#6
gnbrotz;114157 Wrote:Can you comment as to why someone who has not yet received a tax statement is preferable to an existing resident who has it, but doesn't wish to provide it?

Phil seemed to think that a long term resident who gets their local tax return each year, and / or is renewing their license falls under the PA clause that states (paraphrasing here) 'the local sheriff can only approve a license for a resident of his county or an acceptable non-resident'

He admitted this sheriff is skirting the law, but in a way that make it very difficult for a long term resident to challenge him.

He also mentioned the BS about a "doctors note if said person is disabled" but the bulk of the conversation was about how he is skirting the law while being VERY careful to not break the law.

We talked about other means of proving you were a resident of the county, driver's license, other tax bills (like property or school taxes) and we both agreed there are glitches there in 'providing proof you are a resident of the county'

So all in all he agreed Martin is being a 'dick' BUT he is being a 'smart dick' that covers his ass with legality.....

I wish I had better news but I trust Phil and what he thinks about the situation up here.

His final words were about how powerful the 'ballot box' was ... and since Martin is old and (from what I know) very sick that may just be our only viable alternative... stay tuned
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#7
Philly's requirements (note 'C' and '#4'):

Quote:1. Applications may be picked up at the Gun PermitsUnit,990 Spring Garden Street, 2nd Floor, Monday through Friday, 8:30 AM to 2:00 PM. This Unit is Closed on Saturdays, Sundays and Holidays, and from December 20th to January 3rd. Only 1 application per person. This Information can also be found at the following website: w w w . p h i l l y p o l i c e . c o m / f o r m s
(If downloaded from internet applicant must bring all paperwork, including this instruction sheet.)

2. Applicants must have an APPLICATION AND TWO (2) REFERENCE SHEETS FILLED OUT COMPLETELY and APPLICABLE ITEMS LISTED BELOW or they will not be accepted. (Do not use pencil)

3. When completed, the entire application must be returned IN PERSON BY THE APPLICANT to the above location, Monday through Friday, 8:30 AM to 2:00 PM. (New applications and renewals will only be handled during this time.)

Also needed at this time of RENEWAL OR NEW APPLICATION:

a. One (1) 2” x 2 ” (inch) Passport Type color photo of the applicant’s head and shoulders, (NO SUNGLASSES, HATS, VEILS, BANDANNAS, ETC.).

b. A $20.00 money order (no other amount will be accepted) payable to “City of Philadelphia”. (NO CASH OR CHECKS WILL BE ACCEPTED.)

c. A VALID Pennsylvania Drivers License or Non-Drivers ID, along with two (2) acceptable forms of proof of residence, all addresses must match. NO PO BOXES WILL BE ACCEPTED, (see back of this sheet for examples).

d. ALL APPLICANTS WILL BE FINGERPRINTED.

e. If you were previously a member of the Armed Forces, a copy of your discharge papers (DD-214) must accompany the application.

f. Foreign born applicants who are presently American citizens must bring their naturalization papers, passports are not acceptable

g. Registered aliens must have their current alien registration identification card, i.e., GREEN CARD and last 3 monthly utility bills, i.e., gas bill, PECO bill, water bill, etc. for proof of residency. THESE 3 BILLS MUST BE THE SAME BILL AND IN CONSECUTIVE MONTHLY ORDER OF THE MOST RECENT MONTH.

h. Must show current or expired permits at time of application. Expired permits to carry will be retained by the Gun Permits Unit.

4. NOTE: Failure to provide (2) references (NOT FAMILY MEMBERS), as required on your application, will result in your application being denied, and forfeiture of your application fee. Enclosed are two references information sheets that your references may use for their convenience. References should include name, address, date of birth and PA State ID or drivers license number at the top of the form.
[Image: pa_zps59e4c512.png?t=1379682235]
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#8
To bad I've been here a year. My VA Resident is up next year. I'd offer to be the test.
[Image: lowsigjpg.jpg]
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#9
Rosco the Iroc;114744 Wrote:To bad I've been here a year. My VA Resident is up next year. I'd offer to be the test.

Have you received a Berkheimer tax return?
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#10
gnbrotz, a brand new resident is preferable if one desires to push a federal civil rights violation argument, because once an individual establishes residency all rights and privileges of that residency must be available. Requiring a form from some residents that they won't have for some time creates a durational residency requirement, and on other matters such as welfare benefits that's unacceptable, so there's some case law to work with.

While providing the form may be viewed as a de minimis issue for residents who've already received it, it most definitely is not for new residents without the ability to yet provide it.

However, considering that I can't speak for Phil as to why he's looking for the clients he is, I can only speculate.

However, I just wanted to point out that, at times new residents are ideal legal plaintiffs, and for many reasons beyond just the one possible scenario I mentioned.
IronSight, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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