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More perverted public ed
#11
JustinHEMI;153969 Wrote:The key word there is inappropriate. Except for religious reasons, kids touching and playing with their privates before puberty is perfectly natural and not inappropriate.

Inappropriate can also mean untimely. While it may not be unusual for a 10-12 year old to masturbate prior to reaching puberty, it is entirely something different for a 5 or 6 year old to do it. And to be clear, generally in common context masturbation results in climax which is entirely different than a child touching and being aware of their sexual organs.

Quote:Inappropriate would be obsession with it, or trying to have actual intercourse with other kids, or inappropriate use of objects and animals. I have a cite for this, which I'll post when I'm on a computer and not my phone.

Those are obvious signs, but I do recall something about how that behavior demonstrates extended or prolonged abuse and initial interest in the activity at a very young age (kindergarten for example) may be an indicator of the early stages of abuse.

Quote:For my case, they drew attention to it. I'm glad they did.

Interesting...so drawing a child's attention to something will make them engage in an activity they otherwise may not have until much later. Kind of points out some holes in the "better teach them young because they're doing it anyway" philosophy Wink
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#12
Notice, I didn't say that I agree with the proposals, if they're real.

I agree that there's a appropriate time to stay sex ed, and 5 or 6 isn't it, IMO.

I think we agree about the masturbation topic when you frame it in the context of achieving orgasm.

Justin
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#13
JustinHEMI;153972 Wrote:Notice, I didn't say that I agree with the proposals, if they're real.

I agree that there's a appropriate time to stay sex ed, and 5 or 6 isn't it, IMO.

I think we agree about the masturbation topic when you frame it in the context of achieving orgasm.

Clarifying my point certainly helps Smile

As far as the sex ed bit goes, I already said what 'sex ed' a 5 or 6 year old needs (if someone touches you run and tell) but I think pre-puberty is a good time to approach the topic of how the body is changing and approach the subject. I think going into explicit detail regarding intercourse is way too young even for some 14 year olds, but learning about reproduction system is right on course. 7th & 8th grade is about right, with detailed information increasing with each year of high school.

I really don't get the 'rush' trying to teach kids younger and younger, it most definitely sexualises them before they understand the actual ramifications.

ANd, for the record I do not agree with the Catholic position on demonizing children for masturbation, I think its the perfect time to educate rather than berate.

Also, I'm hoping that the resident experts hit up this thread and offer their insight as to the age of inappropriateness and abuse portion of the discussion, that is actually extremely important information that I for one want to get right.
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#14
Sex education begins the moment you sit and talk with your toddler about girls and boys, talk about mommy loves daddy, we're a family, etc. Sex education isn't just about sex acts, but about the full range of sexuality.

I am apt to consider most of this reporting article to be sensationalist because they mostly quoted parents and didn't appear to make any attempt to quote facts. This is the same reporting I've seen every time a comprehensive sex education plan is considered.

Sex education for 5 year olds (in the curricula I've seen) talks about family composition, treating others well, personal hygiene, and personal/private vs public behaviors. This is where many conservatives get upset, because it talks about different ways that families exist. Most people jump to the "gay" issue, but it also includes letting kids know that it's okay if they only have a mom or dad, or if they're being raised by their grandparents, because they still have a family. There's nothing wrong with emphasizing at home the different ways your own family is structured (aunts/uncles/grandparents, etc.) but it's important that kids understand that other people have different families.

As for masturbation - many children touch themselves for pleasure, and yes, even infants have been known to have involuntary climaxes from their self-pleasuring. The presence of masturbation itself is not a sign of molestation. There's the totality of the picture that therapists look at, and while they may note this aspect, it really just causes them to rule it out by looking for other markers. One of those markers is that children are sexualized toward adults, not toward themselves. Excessive masturbation in a child may indicate the presence of extreme anxiety or a lack of interesting activities for a child to engage in, among other things. Just as in adults, masturbation releases tension and feels good.

The appropriate response for an adult to a child who touches themselves in public is to say "that's something you do in private in your own room" and simply ask them to stop in the current setting.

As for "tell me if anyone touches you in your private parts", keep in mind that most molesters are known to the family and most will threaten to harm mom/dad if the child tells. A child's love for their parents is so strong they often don't tell for that very reason. Make sure you tell your children that if someone threatens to hurt mommy or daddy they are lying. "Always tell me/us everything so we can protect you" is an important addition to this "talk". Stranger-danger is overemphasized greatly - it gets more air time because it's sensationalist. The reality is that most children who are abused are abused by a friend, family member, or someone known to the family. It isn't just the sex itself that damages, but the damage to trust and safety within the confines of the child's own life as well.

As for information "sexualizing" a child - information itself, properly given in the context of age-appropriateness will not sexualize your child. Watching television/movies with sexualized behaviors is more likely to sexualize your child. How many of you really consider what shows your children see (albeit inadvertently at times) when considering the impact on their development? Honestly, I'd eliminate most television before worrying about sex education.

As for watching parents (of whatever combination) displaying signs of affection and love, teaching your child that the right place for sex is in the exclusive relationship of the primary adults of the family is exactly what you want them to see. Sex should be seen as part of a mature and mutual relationship, not something that is to be hidden and used to control or dominate. Obviously (and I say this for those without the ability to read between the lines), the overt and full display of sexual intimacy is not what children should see, but it's fine and healthy for them to see the playful and fully clothed intimacy between two people. If they walk in on you... oops! They won't be damaged for life if you handle it casually.

Camper;153973 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;153972 Wrote:Notice, I didn't say that I agree with the proposals, if they're real.

I agree that there's a appropriate time to stay sex ed, and 5 or 6 isn't it, IMO.

I think we agree about the masturbation topic when you frame it in the context of achieving orgasm.

Clarifying my point certainly helps Smile

As far as the sex ed bit goes, I already said what 'sex ed' a 5 or 6 year old needs (if someone touches you run and tell) but I think pre-puberty is a good time to approach the topic of how the body is changing and approach the subject. I think going into explicit detail regarding intercourse is way too young even for some 14 year olds, but learning about reproduction system is right on course. 7th & 8th grade is about right, with detailed information increasing with each year of high school.

I really don't get the 'rush' trying to teach kids younger and younger, it most definitely sexualises them before they understand the actual ramifications.

ANd, for the record I do not agree with the Catholic position on demonizing children for masturbation, I think its the perfect time to educate rather than berate.

Also, I'm hoping that the resident experts hit up this thread and offer their insight as to the age of inappropriateness and abuse portion of the discussion, that is actually extremely important information that I for one want to get right.
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