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My First - "You Should Cover That Up"
#21
rmagill;15741 Wrote:I think the OP did a good job. Personally, I treat everyone with respect until they give me a reason not to. Someone touching me against my will/aggressively is a good reason for me to not respect someone... and defend myself.

As far as carrying in the bar, I think it is situational. I have been in some bars where OCing any time of day is asking for trouble. I have also been in some bars that are more like restaurants for alcohol... no matter what time of day it is, the patrons are responsible people drinking responsibly. Add to this the amount of alcohol the carrier is consuming and you have another variable. It is entirely possible that there would not be a problem OCing in a bar, and it is entirely possible there will almost always be problems OCing in a bar. Depends on the context and situation.

To me, it sounds like the OP was surrounded by friends and was being careful enough to respond to the aggressor in an appropriate manner.

That's how this place was. It has a lot of open space all the way around a rectangular shaped bar in the middle. Busy but not crowded, cramped or tight quartered. A higher priced "beer snob" type of place. Easy to keep up a good situational awareness. To make a point, I don't generally OC in a bar for many of the reasons already posted.
15Truckman, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#22
The reasons mentioned above are why I do not go to bars at all...

Certainly your free to OC if you care to (as is your RIGHT), but I believe it to be a showing of poor SA to step into an environment like that while OC'ing. OC'ing in a bar to me would show poor analysis of ones environment (assuming its crowded and full of drunks)..
I love Glocks... I don't know why ?? ShrugShrug
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#23
rmagill;15741 Wrote:To me, it sounds like the OP was surrounded by friends and was being careful enough to respond to the aggressor in an appropriate manner.

Surrounded by friends, and someone got close enough to accost him, and someone still got close enough to reach for his gun.

In bars/clubs drunk, foolish, stupid, belligerent, froggy people abound. I've seen fights started over bar napkins or free peanuts before. I've seen fights started over who would get to put the next dollar in the juke box before. I've seen fights over who would get to take home the butt ugly chick trolling at the end of the bar at 2am.

So again...it doesn't matter how responsible you are when the people around you are hammered jack offs.

But i do allow for and agree that circumstances are key. If it's a wine and cheese crowd there for a wine testing, it's hardly the same as thursday night dart league at Joe's Sports tavern where, after about 11pm, the place is going to be wall to wall drunk bar guys, with lots of regulars from another bar there. You wouldn't think so, but men will fight over even bar darts.
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#24
Valorius;15859 Wrote:I've seen fights over who would get to take home the butt ugly chick trolling at the end of the bar at 2am.

Heh. "You got fins to the left, fins to the right, you're the only girl in town." Dupadance
I don't suffer from insanity.
I enjoy every minute of it.
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#25
Valorius;15859 Wrote:
rmagill;15741 Wrote:To me, it sounds like the OP was surrounded by friends and was being careful enough to respond to the aggressor in an appropriate manner.

Surrounded by friends, and someone got close enough to accost him, and someone still got close enough to reach for his gun.

In bars/clubs drunk, foolish, stupid, belligerent, froggy people abound. I've seen fights started over bar napkins or free peanuts before. I've seen fights started over who would get to put the next dollar in the juke box before. I've seen fights over who would get to take home the butt ugly chick trolling at the end of the bar at 2am.

So again...it doesn't matter how responsible you are when the people around you are hammered jack offs.

But i do allow for and agree that circumstances are key. If it's a wine and cheese crowd there for a wine testing, it's hardly the same as thursday night dart league at Joe's Sports tavern where, after about 11pm, the place is going to be wall to wall drunk bar guys, with lots of regulars from another bar there. You wouldn't think so, but men will fight over even bar darts.

Aren't those precisely the reasons why people carry? To protect themselves from knuckleheads? You never know what may happen when. Sounds to me like you're starting to blame the victim..."Did you see how she was dressed? She had it coming..." Shrug
15Truckman, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#26
jahwarrior72;15786 Wrote:I'm in agreement with VAL. Bars are one the few places I won't open carry.

FWIW, I think your response to the douchebucket was excellent. You didn't allow him to get physical, and you didn't overreact by beating the piss out of him (though I think he deserved it), or shooting him. Well done.
Unbanned since September 2012.
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#27
15Truckman;16010 Wrote:
Valorius;15859 Wrote:Surrounded by friends, and someone got close enough to accost him, and someone still got close enough to reach for his gun.

In bars/clubs drunk, foolish, stupid, belligerent, froggy people abound. I've seen fights started over bar napkins or free peanuts before. I've seen fights started over who would get to put the next dollar in the juke box before. I've seen fights over who would get to take home the butt ugly chick trolling at the end of the bar at 2am.

So again...it doesn't matter how responsible you are when the people around you are hammered jack offs.

But i do allow for and agree that circumstances are key. If it's a wine and cheese crowd there for a wine testing, it's hardly the same as thursday night dart league at Joe's Sports tavern where, after about 11pm, the place is going to be wall to wall drunk bar guys, with lots of regulars from another bar there. You wouldn't think so, but men will fight over even bar darts.

Aren't those precisely the reasons why people carry? To protect themselves from knuckleheads? You never know what may happen when. Sounds to me like you're starting to blame the victim..."Did you see how she was dressed? She had it coming..." Shrug

Did anybody say that he shouldn't have carried? I think Val is only questioning his decision to OPEN carry...
I love Glocks... I don't know why ?? ShrugShrug
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#28
15Truckman;16010 Wrote:Aren't those precisely the reasons why people carry? To protect themselves from knuckleheads? You never know what may happen when. Sounds to me like you're starting to blame the victim..."Did you see how she was dressed? She had it coming..." Shrug

I certainly hope you're not carrying a gun to protect yourself from a bar fight. Especially not one that was provoked by the the very act of you OCing to begin with.

And besides, you can carry a gun to protect yourself without giving all the drunken assholes something to fixate on in their stupid drunken "look at me" or "hey dudes watch this" haze. It's like going into lion country after bathing in the blood of wildebeests. You're going to attract a lot of "unnecessary Imperial entanglements."
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#29
I have seen decent men turn into assholes when drunk. I have seen assholes turn into idiots when drunk. I don't go into bars at all anymore. I don't think it is a good idea to oc in a bar because of the "other guy". No matter how you handle yourself someone else may look at you as either a challenge or proving grounds.

If you want to oc in a bar go right ahead, I would never say you are wrong. It just ain't for me. With that being said I think the op handled it well.
You have a right to protect yourself and a duty to protect your family.
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#30
I'm OCing more and more, and while I always carry, I'd feel pretty damn conspicuous OCing in a bar. (Not a place I frequent, so it's nearly moot...) I think the OP did the right thing, all things considered, and I applaud him for carrying, OC or CC. My goal in an "audience-unknown" situation is to be completely invisible. OC in a bar wouldn't allow me to do that.

Once again, 15Truckman, good job holding it together, and keeping your wits about you.
With cheese, Grommet.
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