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Negative encounter at Malvern Drivers License Center with Police response.
#21
JustinHEMI;137331 Wrote:I think we all agree that PennDOT doesn't have the right to prohibit firearms..., but the question is, can the property owner, even if it is a state agency occupying the space? This is a grey area, and I think the OP did the best he could under the circumstances.

Justin

According to Gunlawyer on the other site ..... (snipped a piece of a post he made on this very incident at PAFOA)

Quote:Preemption applies to any "county, municipality or township". Not the state itself.

There may be an argument that the 2nd Amendment (and PA's own Article 1, Section 21) restricts the ability of the state to infringe or "question" your ability to keep and bear arms. But Section 6120 of the UFA does not.
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#22
I'm not being a smart ass here, but how exactly does that apply to this situation?

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#23
shademtarmory;137348 Wrote:Either way, it sounds to me that most likely a PennDOT employee posted the sign.

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Occam's Razor. Doesn't rule out other possibilities though. Also doesn't make it official or legal.
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

William Pitt
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#24
soberbyker;137349 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;137331 Wrote:I think we all agree that PennDOT doesn't have the right to prohibit firearms..., but the question is, can the property owner, even if it is a state agency occupying the space? This is a grey area, and I think the OP did the best he could under the circumstances.

Justin

According to Gunlawyer on the other site ..... (snipped a piece of a post he made on this very incident at PAFOA)

Quote:Preemption applies to any "county, municipality or township". Not the state itself.

There may be an argument that the 2nd Amendment (and PA's own Article 1, Section 21) restricts the ability of the state to infringe or "question" your ability to keep and bear arms. But Section 6120 of the UFA does not.

6120 doesn't, but how about 6109(m.3)(2) ?

http://www.pa2a.org/wiki.php?wid=27
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

William Pitt
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#25
shademtarmory;137350 Wrote:I'm not being a smart ass here, but how exactly does that apply to this situation?

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LOL... who are you asking? Quote people, it provides clarity and flow. Big Grin
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

William Pitt
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#26
(03-08-2014, 08:35 PM)Curmudgeon Wrote:
shademtarmory;137350 Wrote:I'm not being a smart ass here, but how exactly does that apply to this situation?

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LOL... who are you asking? Quote people, it provides clarity and flow. Big Grin

Clarity and flow... haha! I was asking anyone who could answer. And the question was about the post immediately prior to the post of mine that you quoted.

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"There is no hunting like the hunting of man. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
-Ernest Hemingway
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#27
shademtarmory;137355 Wrote:
(03-08-2014, 08:35 PM)Curmudgeon Wrote: LOL... who are you asking? Quote people, it provides clarity and flow. Big Grin

Clarity and flow... haha! I was asking anyone who could answer. And the question was about the post immediately prior to the post of mine that you quoted.

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Well then I tend to agree, 6120 and preemption are not necessarily the only governing restrictions. I really don't believe that all state agencies are free to do whatever they want simply because 6120 doesn't stop them. Gunlawyer001's answer may be technically correct, it just doesn't go far enough as an answer. To be fair it is probably a response taken out of context where someone else suggested that 6120 would "do this" or "do that", and he corrected them by saying "no, it doesn't".
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

William Pitt
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#28
Curmudgeon;137358 Wrote:Well then I tend to agree, 6120 and preemption are not necessarily the only governing restrictions. I really don't believe that all state agencies are free to do whatever they want simply because 6120 doesn't stop them. Gunlawyer001's answer may be technically correct, it just doesn't go far enough as an answer. To be fair it is probably a response taken out of context where someone else suggested that 6120 would "do this" or "do that", and he corrected them by saying "no, it doesn't".

OK Here's is exactly what GL said and the post he quoted in reference to. This is in a PAFOA thread posted by the same OP as this one about the same incident. The same discussion about whether or not PennDot can regulate possession in their building is what prompted it as far as I can see.

Quote:
jthrelf;2669134 Wrote:I was just at the Dublin license center today and I didn't notice any signs. I would assume Penn DOT locations are state owned and thus not allowed to restrict legal carrying of firearms. I mean Corbett's picture is up on the wall, it just doesn't seem like private property.

It sucks you had to disarm but you handled it well and you didn't lose your spot in line.

GunLawyer001;2669144 Wrote:Preemption applies to any "county, municipality or township". Not the state itself.

There may be an argument that the 2nd Amendment (and PA's own Article 1, Section 21) restricts the ability of the state to infringe or "question" your ability to keep and bear arms. But Section 6120 of the UFA does not.

On a related note, back when the 2nd Amendment was claimed only to restrict Congress, you'll note that Congress banned gun pretty much on every property where they had erected a building, and the entire District of Columbia. Plus, they created "police" regulations without having any inherent police powers.

There's a whole lot of fertile ground for pruning back the federal rules and laws regarding every federal building, Post Office, military reservation, etc. If they can ban guns everyplace they control, then the 2nd Amendment has no teeth.

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/24...ost2669144
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#29
shademtarmory;137350 Wrote:I'm not being a smart ass here, but how exactly does that apply to this situation?

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See my last post.
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#30
Maybe I'm tired from the day, but I still don't quite get it.

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"There is no hunting like the hunting of man. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
-Ernest Hemingway
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