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NICS approval delay is defacto denial
#1
A Michigan caller to the Hannity radio reports that he went to a gun show, purchased a S&W .40 auto but was told his background check came back "delayed." Was told delay could take up to five days, which is effectively a denial as the gun show would not be in town that long. Man claims a squeaky-clean record with not so much a traffic-ticket in recent memory. Seller reported numerous other unusual "delay" results that same day.

Don't know Michigan law, but caller claims that attempting a subsequent purchase at a bricks & mortar store would only result in two background checks in the system creating another approval red flag.

Supposition is that these delayed approvals are no accident, but deliberate attempts by anti-2a authorities to frustrate gun sales, especially at gun shows.
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Gman106, proud to be the original "throbbing member" of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#2
Technically it's not a defacto denial, it's just an annoyance. It isn't NICS fault that the dealer won't be in town. There's nothing stopping the buyer from making arrangements with the seller after the delay for a method of picking up his firearm after the approval goes through.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if there were some muddling going on in the NICS system. There's been talk about the same kind of things happening with PICS over the years. When the purchases are based upon access to databases, it's very easy to schedule database maintenance to occur over the weekends when big gun shows are happening.
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#3
streaker69;91429 Wrote:When the purchases are based upon access to databases, it's very easy to schedule database maintenance to occur over the weekends when big gun shows are happening.

Well, if it occurred during the week, the brick-and-mortar gun shops would bitch that you'd cut into their business hours. No matter when you shut down a system like NICS or PICS, somebody's gonna be unhappy, unless you do it overnight, in which case the poor DBA is gonna be unhappy.

But sometimes if you don't shut it down, it's going to come down on its own.

Ideally, maintenance windows should be on some standard, published, schedule. Then if you scheduled a show during that time---- oh well.
gascolator, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2012.
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#4
gascolator;91516 Wrote:
streaker69;91429 Wrote:When the purchases are based upon access to databases, it's very easy to schedule database maintenance to occur over the weekends when big gun shows are happening.

Well, if it occurred during the week, the brick-and-mortar gun shops would bitch that you'd cut into their business hours. No matter when you shut down a system like NICS or PICS, somebody's gonna be unhappy, unless you do it overnight, in which case the poor DBA is gonna be unhappy.

But sometimes if you don't shut it down, it's going to come down on its own.

Ideally, maintenance windows should be on some standard, published, schedule. Then if you scheduled a show during that time---- oh well.

While you make a valid point in 25 years in IT I have NEVER seen anything less than a full system upgrade, hardware and software, that took more than 12 hours to accomplish. This constant need to take NICS and PICS down for full weekends, and sometimes more, is the gov't trying in their own way to slow purchasing.
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"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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#5
billamj;91518 Wrote:
gascolator;91516 Wrote:Well, if it occurred during the week, the brick-and-mortar gun shops would bitch that you'd cut into their business hours. No matter when you shut down a system like NICS or PICS, somebody's gonna be unhappy, unless you do it overnight, in which case the poor DBA is gonna be unhappy.

But sometimes if you don't shut it down, it's going to come down on its own.

Ideally, maintenance windows should be on some standard, published, schedule. Then if you scheduled a show during that time---- oh well.

While you make a valid point in 25 years in IT I have NEVER seen anything less than a full system upgrade, hardware and software, that took more than 12 hours to accomplish. This constant need to take NICS and PICS down for full weekends, and sometimes more, is the gov't trying in their own way to slow purchasing.

The job of a real IT professional is to maintain the systems in such a manner that downtime little or no effect upon the end users. If that means working from 10PM to 6AM to accomplish the task that's what should be done. I've done it many times myself. Over all the availability of the system to the users is what's important.
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#6
streaker69;91544 Wrote:
billamj;91518 Wrote:While you make a valid point in 25 years in IT I have NEVER seen anything less than a full system upgrade, hardware and software, that took more than 12 hours to accomplish. This constant need to take NICS and PICS down for full weekends, and sometimes more, is the gov't trying in their own way to slow purchasing.

The job of a real IT professional is to maintain the systems in such a manner that downtime little or no effect upon the end users. If that means working from 10PM to 6AM to accomplish the task that's what should be done. I've done it many times myself. Over all the availability of the system to the users is what's important.

^^^^^
QFT! My point was that there is no way in hell that we should be facing a full weekend where the system is down. We should never be facing 24 hours where the system is down. Everyone rags about the system downtime but I can guarandamntee you that it is NOT due to IT requirements.
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"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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#7
I would bet that when it does got down like that on the weekends, county dispatchers and PD's still have access to the database. There's no way that they're letting them hang for 2 days.
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#8
streaker69;91561 Wrote:I would bet that when it does got down like that on the weekends, county dispatchers and PD's still have access to the database. There's no way that they're letting them hang for 2 days.

Apparently not. IIRC, when there was an outage (the very weekend I was trying to transfer my LCP) some of the scanner guys over at the other place said that the dispatchers were telling cops in the field that the database was down.

Also, remember, these are government IT employees we're talking about. Not like those of us who actually are motivated by keeping our employers' businesses up and running. And yep, I've had plenty of bleary-eyed maintenance windows myself. Thank WAN we can usually do it safely from home now, 'cuz those drives to and from really sucked.
gascolator, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2012.
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#9
So in short.....they run off of "ONE" server?...Yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#10
Then again, if it was an S&W auto, it probably was an M&P DAO.

Let's face it; anything that prevents someone from buying a DAO pistol is actually doing them a favor.
gascolator, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2012.
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