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No More "Trust Loophole"
#1
Looks like you can no longer go the trust route if you wanted to avoid the hassle of CLEO signature, passport photo and fingerprints? (As I understood how it used to work anyway, I don't have direct experience in this type of thing. Mods, feel free to edit this at your discretion)

https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download

Quote:This final rule was signed by the Attorney General on January 4, 2016. It is effective 180 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. The final rule published in the Federal Register may differ slightly from this version as a result of Federal Register formatting.

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
27 CFR Part 479
[Docket No. ATF 41F; AG Order No. 3608-2016]
RIN 1140-AA43
Billing Code: 4410-FY-P
Machineguns, Destructive Devices and Certain Other Firearms; Background Checks for Responsible Persons of a Trust or Legal Entity With Respect to Making or Transferring a· Firearm
AGENCY: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, Department of Justice.
ACTION: Final rule.

SUMMARY: The Department of Justice is amending the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) regarding the making or transferring of a firearm under the National Firearms Act (NFA). This final rule defines the term "responsible person," as used in reference to a trust, partnership, association, company, or corporation; requires responsible persons of such trusts or legal entities to complete a specified form and to submit photographs and fingerprints when the trust or legal entity files an application to make an NFA firearm or is listed as the transferee on an application to transfer an NFA firearm; requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement
for a certification signed by the CLEO. These provisions provide a public safety benefit as they ensure that responsible persons undergo background checks. In addition, this final rule adds a new section to ATF's regulations to address the possession and transfer of firearms registered to a decedent. The new section clarifies that the executor, administrator, personal representative, or other person authorized under State law to dispose of property in an estate may possess a firearm registered to a decedent during the term of probate without such possession being treated as a ''transfer" under the NFA. It also specifies that the transfer of the frrearm to any beneficiary of the estate may be made on a tax-exempt basis.
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#2
Not exactly - CLEO Notification, not Signature

See highlighted text in your quote and Josh Prince's commentary here: http://blog.princelaw.com/2016/01/05/411...o-atf-41p/

Mr_Gixxer;171383 Wrote:Looks like you can no longer go the trust route if you wanted to avoid the hassle of CLEO signature, passport photo and fingerprints? (As I understood how it used to work anyway, I don't have direct experience in this type of thing. Mods, feel free to edit this at your discretion)

https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download

Quote:This final rule was signed by the Attorney General on January 4, 2016. It is effective 180 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. The final rule published in the Federal Register may differ slightly from this version as a result of Federal Register formatting.

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
27 CFR Part 479
[Docket No. ATF 41F; AG Order No. 3608-2016]
RIN 1140-AA43
Billing Code: 4410-FY-P
Machineguns, Destructive Devices and Certain Other Firearms; Background Checks for Responsible Persons of a Trust or Legal Entity With Respect to Making or Transferring a· Firearm
AGENCY: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, Department of Justice.
ACTION: Final rule.

SUMMARY: The Department of Justice is amending the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) regarding the making or transferring of a firearm under the National Firearms Act (NFA). This final rule defines the term "responsible person," as used in reference to a trust, partnership, association, company, or corporation; requires responsible persons of such trusts or legal entities to complete a specified form and to submit photographs and fingerprints when the trust or legal entity files an application to make an NFA firearm or is listed as the transferee on an application to transfer an NFA firearm; requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement
for a certification signed by the CLEO.
These provisions provide a public safety benefit as they ensure that responsible persons undergo background checks. In addition, this final rule adds a new section to ATF's regulations to address the possession and transfer of firearms registered to a decedent. The new section clarifies that the executor, administrator, personal representative, or other person authorized under State law to dispose of property in an estate may possess a firearm registered to a decedent during the term of probate without such possession being treated as a ''transfer" under the NFA. It also specifies that the transfer of the frrearm to any beneficiary of the estate may be made on a tax-exempt basis.
-JD-, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#3
Was a CLEO signature required for a trust before? I keep hearing people talk about this new regulation as a good thing for people in Philly or elsewhere for exampme where the CLEO was anti gun. Sounds like a compromise to me though, the only reason I ever considered going the trust route for NFA stuff was so that I didn't have to put my fingerprints into the system.
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#4
Mr_Gixxer;171399 Wrote:Was a CLEO signature required for a trust before? I keep hearing people talk about this new regulation as a good thing for people in Philly or elsewhere for exampme where the CLEO was anti gun. Sounds like a compromise to me though, the only reason I ever considered going the trust route for NFA stuff was so that I didn't have to put my fingerprints into the system.
No, not currently.
Interesting issues still remain about exactly who is required to be a vetted Responsible Party.

This SHOULD (not saying WILL) mean that the individual CLEO signoff should move to notification - for consistency, but I am not holding my breath ...
-JD-, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#5
Under the current policy, a trust does not need fingerprints, photos or the CLEO sign off.

For the new policy, a trust WILL require fingerprints and photos for EACH responsible person listed on the trust. This means everyone on the trust EXCEPT the beneficiaries. This is due to anyone listed on the trust can sign/for pick up the NFA item when it arrives. A BGC will be preformed only on the trustee who picks up the NFA item from the FFL. This has been the interpretation of several very knowledgeable lawyers who are highly involved in firearms and NFA businesses.

As for the CLEO, the FFL transferring the NFA item will send them a copy of some (probably new) form, NOTIFYING them of the transfer (similar to what is now done for multiple handgun sales).

When it goes into affect, the only thing that a trust does is it allows multiple people to have the NFA item in their possession with no problems.

An individual doing a Form 1 or Form 4 has to do the same things as before but will not need the CLEO sign off.

All that said, this does not take affect until 180 days from Jan 4, 2016, so anything in work up to that point is done the same way as it is now. Also gives groups time to consider legal action or other things and for Congress to get involved.
Xringshooter, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#6
I didn't read all 200 some odd pages but what about someone who has NFA items on a trust currently or up until the change takes affect? Will they now have to make changes to these trusts and items to comply with the new regs or does the fingerprint and photo requirement only apply to new NFA additions to a trust after the 180 days?
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#7
Mr_Gixxer;171408 Wrote:I didn't read all 200 some odd pages but what about someone who has NFA items on a trust currently or up until the change takes affect? Will they now have to make changes to these trusts and items to comply with the new regs or does the fingerprint and photo requirement only apply to new NFA additions to a trust after the 180 days?

All the new stuff will not take affect until 180 days from yesterday. All trusts and such in the system now AND up until that 180th day will proceed like it is now. On day 181, then any new trusts and individual Form 1's and 4's will have to comply with the new regulations.
Xringshooter, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#8
Xringshooter;171415 Wrote:All the new stuff will not take affect until 180 days from yesterday. All trusts and such in the system now AND up until that 180th day will proceed like it is now. On day 181, then any new trusts and individual Form 1's and 4's will have to comply with the new regulations.

From the Shall Not Be Questioned blog:
Quote:He notes that it has not yet been published in the Federal Register, so the clock is not currently ticking toward implementation.

"He" is Josh Prince, emphasis added by me.
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#9
gnbrotz;171416 Wrote:
Xringshooter;171415 Wrote:All the new stuff will not take affect until 180 days from yesterday. All trusts and such in the system now AND up until that 180th day will proceed like it is now. On day 181, then any new trusts and individual Form 1's and 4's will have to comply with the new regulations.

From the Shall Not Be Questioned blog:
Quote:He notes that it has not yet been published in the Federal Register, so the clock is not currently ticking toward implementation.

"He" is Josh Prince, emphasis added by me.

Very good possibility, I was just going by the fact that it was signed yesterday so that's when I figured it started. Maybe it'll get lost getting to the printer Tongue
Xringshooter, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#10
What needs to be closed is the "Career Politician" Loophole!!
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Admit nothing.  Deny everything. Demand proof.
If we lie to the government, it's a crime. If the government lies to the people, it's called politics.
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