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NY Bill to mandate psychiatric evaluations for students...
#1
This is so terrifying:

http://freepatriot.org/2014/01/18/ny-sta...rproposal/

So NY, is proposing a bill now that would require all public school students to have mandatory psych evaluations to determine whether they are mentally fit to attend public school. I bet being "for the children" this will pass like shit through a goose. This is so terrifying it's not even funny here's what I'm thinking could be a few hypotheticals:

-How much do you want to bet that the drug companies donate heavily to her campaigns? A bill like this would be an absolute windfall for them.

-Little 15yo Johnny broke up with his first real girlfriend the day before the evaluation? Little Johnny could be half-heartedly contemplating suicide?! He needs to be drugged! Between the depression and the drugs little Johnny can't be trusted to own firearms ever!

-As the certified medical professional of the school I believe that little Johnny's depression goes beyond breaking up with his girlfriend yesterday, we feel that his level of mental anguish is indicative of a problem in the home environment! We recommend that a CPS agent to be dispatched to search the home and note any firearms that may be on the premises.

-What?! There is a .22 bolt action that Johnny has access to that he kills pigeons with near his families' barn?! We need to put Johnny in protective custody and Johnny's parents are going to need to spend 10s of thousands of dollars to see their child again!

-What?! The church that Johnny's family attends doesn't fit the progressive PC agenda? Unsafe environment, we need to investigate the church also and everyone affiliated with it! Does some other organization the parents are affiliated with associate with something or a message that could remotely be considered by the regime as "Hate-speech" like the Tea Party and their use of "derogatory" language against "undocumented workers"?

The abuses of a policy like this are absolutely limitless. They can charge every child in that school with a "thoughtcrime" by the time they graduate that could have a profound impact on their entire life. This is nothing but conditioning to get the next generation to accept the growing police state with their obedient, and appreciative consent for the ever vigilant Big Brother.

I really wonder how long it's going to take before the masses realize we have gone beyond the point that we can fix our nation with votes for the incestuous two party system, or if this is really what people want and we will just allow the founder's America to slip away because the people are unable to handle true freedom and liberty? Either way every day is more outlandish than the last, the violations of our civil liberties more egregious, and the progression only seems to be accelerating and we are getting further and further past the point of no return.

I shudder to think what this country will look like in a decade if it is allowed to continue on it's current course. I do not understand how the schools got like this if they are supposed to operate based on what the people want.
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#2
Hitler Youth comes to mind....

Really scary stuff.

And you could probably diagnose like 75% of all boys age 8 and under with ADHD, and the parents start getting kids taken if they refuse the drugs.
Error 396: Signature cannot be found.
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#3
    I think NY just went "full retard!"
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#4
(01-22-2014, 01:23 AM)RugerGirl Wrote: And you could probably diagnose like 75% of all boys age 8 and under with ADHD, and the parents start getting kids taken if they refuse the drugs.

Part of me believes the pharmaceutical industry has a pretty big hand in this for that very reason. This is quite a scary piece of legislation.
The law? The law is a human institution...
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#5
csmith;132399 Wrote:
(01-22-2014, 01:23 AM)RugerGirl Wrote: And you could probably diagnose like 75% of all boys age 8 and under with ADHD, and the parents start getting kids taken if they refuse the drugs.

Part of me believes the pharmaceutical industry has a pretty big hand in this for that very reason. This is quite a scary piece of legislation.
For everyone that thinks drug companies are in some major scheme to bribe physicians, they aren't. They haven't been able to give a doctor a kick back in almost a decade. They can't buy him lunch in most cases. They can only give away pens and paper if they are part of a educational training seminar. They are now no longer hiring them to be speakers for their products, of which was rare. All of this is no more. I've watched it transform from the marketing research stand point and I can tell you, those days are long gone. No doubt some remnants live on but they are quickly dying off. Right now about 75% of all drugs ( and I wouldn't be surprised if that is now 85%) that people actually get filled are... Generic. Don't take my word for it here's a link to an article I googled in 5 seconds. The article is referencing 2010 numbers and the percentage of generics then was 72.7% from your local Pharmacy and Mail order was 61% (mail order is typically more brand focused as to save money).

The drug companies haven't had big break through drugs in ages, the golden age of pharma died a decade ago and we're all waiting for a real break through to pump some money back into the business. That is why Pfizer is sitting on huge sums of cash right now about $33 billion and BMS is sitting on nearly $3 billion. They are trying to weather the storm and instead of R&D they are now just buying smaller firms that are trying to make small market drugs (low incidence/prevalence diagnosis). Right now the drugs companies would love to cure just about anything, and literally cure, just for a boost in sales sot they could hold onto their sales force for when they make the next great maintenance drug.


http://www.ncpanet.org/index.php/cost-sa...eric-drugs
Quote:In 2010, retail pharmacies dispensed generics 72.7 percent of the time while the big three PBMs' mail order dispensing facilities had generic dispensing rates of 60.5 to 61.5 percent.
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#6
ExcelToExcel;132406 Wrote:
csmith;132399 Wrote:Part of me believes the pharmaceutical industry has a pretty big hand in this for that very reason. This is quite a scary piece of legislation.
For everyone that thinks drug companies are in some major scheme to bribe physicians, they aren't. They haven't been able to give a doctor a kick back in almost a decade. They can't buy him lunch in most cases. They can only give away pens and paper if they are part of a educational training seminar. They are now no longer hiring them to be speakers for their products, of which was rare. All of this is no more. I've watched it transform from the marketing research stand point and I can tell you, those days are long gone. No doubt some remnants live on but they are quickly dying off. Right now about 75% of all drugs ( and I wouldn't be surprised if that is now 85%) that people actually get filled are... Generic. Don't take my word for it here's a link to an article I googled in 5 seconds. The article is referencing 2010 numbers and the percentage of generics then was 72.7% from your local Pharmacy and Mail order was 61% (mail order is typically more brand focused as to save money).

The drug companies haven't had big break through drugs in ages, the golden age of pharma died a decade ago and we're all waiting for a real break through to pump some money back into the business. That is why Pfizer is sitting on huge sums of cash right now about $33 billion and BMS is sitting on nearly $3 billion. They are trying to weather the storm and instead of R&D they are now just buying smaller firms that are trying to make small market drugs (low incidence/prevalence diagnosis). Right now the drugs companies would love to cure just about anything, and literally cure, just for a boost in sales sot they could hold onto their sales force for when they make the next great maintenance drug.


http://www.ncpanet.org/index.php/cost-sa...eric-drugs
Quote:In 2010, retail pharmacies dispensed generics 72.7 percent of the time while the big three PBMs' mail order dispensing facilities had generic dispensing rates of 60.5 to 61.5 percent.

Do they really need to give a kickback to doctors with the current climate? Doctors are happy to write prescriptions just to keep patients coming back for refills. Bill the insurance company for an office visit. Who needs kickbacks. Every time we turn on the TV we are told we need a pill or a shot for something. We are constantly told our kids need a pill or a shot for something. Kids are being diagnosed with ADHD for just being kids, give em some pills.

You have a good point about the generics, one which I cannot dispute. My tinfoil still says something is up though Tongue
The law? The law is a human institution...
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#7
ExcelToExcel;132406 Wrote:
csmith;132399 Wrote:Part of me believes the pharmaceutical industry has a pretty big hand in this for that very reason. This is quite a scary piece of legislation.
For everyone that thinks drug companies are in some major scheme to bribe physicians, they aren't. They haven't been able to give a doctor a kick back in almost a decade. They can't buy him lunch in most cases. They can only give away pens and paper if they are part of a educational training seminar. They are now no longer hiring them to be speakers for their products, of which was rare. All of this is no more. I've watched it transform from the marketing research stand point and I can tell you, those days are long gone. No doubt some remnants live on but they are quickly dying off. Right now about 75% of all drugs ( and I wouldn't be surprised if that is now 85%) that people actually get filled are... Generic. Don't take my word for it here's a link to an article I googled in 5 seconds. The article is referencing 2010 numbers and the percentage of generics then was 72.7% from your local Pharmacy and Mail order was 61% (mail order is typically more brand focused as to save money).

The drug companies haven't had big break through drugs in ages, the golden age of pharma died a decade ago and we're all waiting for a real break through to pump some money back into the business. That is why Pfizer is sitting on huge sums of cash right now about $33 billion and BMS is sitting on nearly $3 billion. They are trying to weather the storm and instead of R&D they are now just buying smaller firms that are trying to make small market drugs (low incidence/prevalence diagnosis). Right now the drugs companies would love to cure just about anything, and literally cure, just for a boost in sales sot they could hold onto their sales force for when they make the next great maintenance drug.


http://www.ncpanet.org/index.php/cost-sa...eric-drugs
Quote:In 2010, retail pharmacies dispensed generics 72.7 percent of the time while the big three PBMs' mail order dispensing facilities had generic dispensing rates of 60.5 to 61.5 percent.


This is not entirely true. I'm not going to say what my wife does for a living or where for security reasons but we still get significant perks from the drug companies. You are correct that it is nowhere near how it used to be, but doctors are still making boat loads of cash doing speaking gigs on behalf of the drug industry for one. 2 or 3 months ago a drug company gave us a free dinner at a very expensive restaurant in exchange for listening to a spiel about a drug while people stared at their phones under the table. Either way there are still a myriad of ways for the drug companies to buy off politicians in lieu of doctors which can have a massive impact from regulations like this.
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#8
If this passes expect to see in the future large numbers of kids who when they become legal age be disqualified from owning a firearm. Emoticon is right.

Little Johnny will get diagnosed for something like ADHD or depression and then be prohibited from owning a gun. Those looking to appeal will not have the time, patience or money needed to hire a lawyer and go through the whole process. NY gun control will be the most restrictive and draconian in the nation, if it isn't already. And of course prohibiting those with ADHD will be outright ludicrous but the state will come up with some twisted logic or senseless reason.
Live Free or Die
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#9
Well, I have quite a few issues with this.

First, psychiatric conditions are essentially where psychology and the medical field collide. Psychiatrists in PA need medical training. In essence, a psychiatric evaluation is an evaluation by a medical doctor.

This would mandate that children undergo evaluation by a physician for non-communicable diagnoses as a requirement for school. What if the parent does not consent - as is their right as a parent? Is the child then prohibited from receiving an education (the state of the current public school system aside)?

What about privacy rights. In connection with the ACA, these evaluations will be available to the .gov. Basically the government will have psych. data on everyone in the state within a few years.

What if a condition is found? Will the school then mandate treatment? Again, what if the parent does not consent? There are often times many ways to treat psychiatric conditions that do not involve medication.

Would this eventually be used to prohibit children with intellectual or learning disabilities from attending school? How about ADD? Depression?

Let's just educate the healthiest and the brightest among us, and medicate the rest, ok? Rolleyes

Have I mentioned I am NOT ok with this?
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#10
Psychiatrists are always "real doctors". The difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist is that the psychiatrist can prescribe medications and understand more about how the brain fundamentally works, the psychologist on the other hand cant prescribe and is only allowed to use therapy that doesn't involve medications like EMDR or CBT. It's like that everywhere not just PA. The most common "fake doctors" are chiropractors and herbal medicine witch doctors.

The most concerning thing to me about this is that it is widely known that conditions like ADHD are seriously over-diagnosed. I imagine that the psychiatrist doing these screenings would probably on staff with the district so it's likely that someone affiliated with the district might lean towards drugging kids to make them more docile and save the rebound headache from the teachers. It would be a clear conflict of interests beyond the privacy issues. You know if this passes in one state it will spread like a virus to NJ and Mass first and then the nation as a whole, if it does it will have profound consequences for our society.
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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