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PA AG Kane in Philly today to end "FL Loophole"
#21
soberbyker;77062 Wrote:
Curmudgeon;77058 Wrote:Is the focus limited to Florida? Is, say, a Virginia/Arizona/etc license still good without a PA LTCF?

Not sure, the AG website used to have this:

Quote:Note: It has come to the attention of the Office of Attorney General that there has been confusion over the applicability of Pennsylvania's reciprocal privileges with regard to the residency status of an individual who has been issued a valid license/permit. It is the position of the Office of Attorney General that recognition within Pennsylvania is based on the issuance to an individual of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence.

No Longer there.

The above has changed, not completely removed:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

Quote:Recognition in Pennsylvania is based on the individual's issuance of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence.
Reply
#22
this is the current state of the email

Quote:Mr. Dennis Fisher,

Thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me earlier today.

I have quickly typed the questions I had for you on the phone below.

I hope this list is complete and I ask that you forgive grammatical or spelling errors.

If you need clarification please do not hesitate to contact me.

My phone number is 410-905-0544

My address is
TED JOHN NOGA
116 Minick drive
Newburgh, PA 17240

Did Attorney General Kane enter into a new agreement with florida and was agreed to by the state of Florida?

If there is a new reciprocity agreement can I please have a copy of the agreement, signed, via electronic form, fax or paper now without having to file a right to know request. If you wish to fax it I will release my fax number to you, however, I assume it would probably be prudent for you to scan the document for electronic transmission. I'm sure many people will be requesting this document and an electronic version at your fingertips will probably save you time.

If there is not a new reciprocity agreement, can I please have a copy of the current reciprocity agreement?

If there is a new reciprocity agreement when can we expect the website to be updated with the new agreement and when does it take effect?

If Attorney Genera Kane did not enter into a new agreement, how is it possible to negate the reciprocity for a Florida permit based on the residency of the individual holding the permit considering the current publicly available reciprocity agreement contains no reference to permit holders place of residence, state or otherwise?

Furthermore. The text of the current reciprocity agreement states "This Reciprocity Agreement is contingent upon and shall only remain effective as long as the respective statutory authority in each state authorizing the reciprocal privileges remains effective."

Under what authority given to her by law did Attorney General Kane Negate the above clause in the reciprocity agreement?

Did Attorney General Kane terminate the reciprocity agreement below?

Did Attorney General Kane send a written 30 day notice to the state of Florida as required in the reciprocity agreement?

If so can I get a copy of that written notice without filing a right to know request?

"This Agreement may be terminated by either Party or their successor upon thirty (30) days written notice."


The agreement (pass if there is a new one or current if there is not) can be found on the Attorney General's website at the following link. Please tell me if this wording is correct.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=428

It contains this text.

"RECIPROCITY AGREEMENT

This Reciprocity Agreement by and between the State of Florida by and through the Florida Department of State, Division of Licensing, and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania by and through the Office of Attorney General.

WHEREAS, the purpose of this Reciprocity Agreement is to extend reciprocal concealed firearm carry permit/license privileges to the citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Florida,

WHEREAS, the respective state offices are authorized by statute to enter into this Reciprocity Agreement,

WHEREAS, in consideration of the matters described herein, and of the mutual benefits and obligations set forth in this Reciprocity Agreement, the Parties hereby agree and covenant as follows:

The State of Florida will recognize valid Pennsylvania permits to carry concealed firearms by valid Pennsylvania permit holders while said permit holders are present in the State of Florida.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will recognize valid Florida licenses to carry concealed firearms by valid Florida permit holders while said permit holders are present in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

This Reciprocity Agreement applies only to the carrying of firearms as defined and authorized by the applicable statutes of Pennsylvania by valid license/permit holders from the respective states and not to any other types of weapons.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Florida will inform each other of any changes in their respective carrying of concealed weapons statutes that may affect the eligibility of the recognition granted by each state.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Florida will each provide the other with copies of their current laws regarding concealed weapons and firearm carry licenses/permits.

The State of Florida will provide twenty-four hour verification of the authenticity and status of Florida licenses. Instructions regarding the method of verification of a Florida concealed handgun permit/license will be provided as soon as the method is established.

This Reciprocity Agreement is contingent upon and shall only remain effective as long as the respective statutory authority in each state authorizing the reciprocal privileges remains effective.

This Reciprocity Agreement shall become effective upon the execution of the authorized Parties? signatures.

This Agreement may be terminated by either Party or their successor upon thirty (30) days written notice.
WITNESSETH, each Party to this Reciprocity Agreement has caused it to be executed on the date indicated below."


Thank you for your time. You were very polite and responsive to my call and I deeply appreciate your professionalism.

-TED JOHN NOGA

Alter the letter again to include this inconsistency

Quote: Recognition in Pennsylvania is based on the individual's issuance of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence.

Quote:Mr. Dennis Fisher,

Thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me earlier today.

I have quickly typed the questions I had for you on the phone below.

I hope this list is complete and I ask that you forgive grammatical or spelling errors.

If you need clarification please do not hesitate to contact me.

My phone number is 410-905-0544

My address is
TED JOHN NOGA
116 Minick drive
Newburgh, PA 17240

Did Attorney General Kane enter into a new agreement with florida and was agreed to by the state of Florida?

If there is a new reciprocity agreement can I please have a copy of the agreement, signed, via electronic form, fax or paper now without having to file a right to know request. If you wish to fax it I will release my fax number to you, however, I assume it would probably be prudent for you to scan the document for electronic transmission. I'm sure many people will be requesting this document and an electronic version at your fingertips will probably save you time.

If there is not a new reciprocity agreement, can I please have a copy of the current reciprocity agreement?

If there is a new reciprocity agreement when can we expect the website to be updated with the new agreement and when does it take effect?

If Attorney Genera Kane did not enter into a new agreement, how is it possible to negate the reciprocity for a Florida permit based on the residency of the individual holding the permit considering the current publicly available reciprocity agreement contains no reference to permit holders place of residence, state or otherwise?

This is further confused by the finding that " Recognition in Pennsylvania is based on the individual's issuance of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence. "

The above statement can be found on your site at the following link

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184


Furthermore. The text of the current reciprocity agreement states "This Reciprocity Agreement is contingent upon and shall only remain effective as long as the respective statutory authority in each state authorizing the reciprocal privileges remains effective."

Under what authority given to her by law did Attorney General Kane Negate the above clause in the reciprocity agreement?

Did Attorney General Kane terminate the reciprocity agreement below?

Did Attorney General Kane send a written 30 day notice to the state of Florida as required in the reciprocity agreement?

If so can I get a copy of that written notice without filing a right to know request?

"This Agreement may be terminated by either Party or their successor upon thirty (30) days written notice."


The agreement (pass if there is a new one or current if there is not) can be found on the Attorney General's website at the following link. Please tell me if this wording is correct.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=428

It contains this text.

"RECIPROCITY AGREEMENT

This Reciprocity Agreement by and between the State of Florida by and through the Florida Department of State, Division of Licensing, and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania by and through the Office of Attorney General.

WHEREAS, the purpose of this Reciprocity Agreement is to extend reciprocal concealed firearm carry permit/license privileges to the citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Florida,

WHEREAS, the respective state offices are authorized by statute to enter into this Reciprocity Agreement,

WHEREAS, in consideration of the matters described herein, and of the mutual benefits and obligations set forth in this Reciprocity Agreement, the Parties hereby agree and covenant as follows:

The State of Florida will recognize valid Pennsylvania permits to carry concealed firearms by valid Pennsylvania permit holders while said permit holders are present in the State of Florida.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will recognize valid Florida licenses to carry concealed firearms by valid Florida permit holders while said permit holders are present in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

This Reciprocity Agreement applies only to the carrying of firearms as defined and authorized by the applicable statutes of Pennsylvania by valid license/permit holders from the respective states and not to any other types of weapons.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Florida will inform each other of any changes in their respective carrying of concealed weapons statutes that may affect the eligibility of the recognition granted by each state.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Florida will each provide the other with copies of their current laws regarding concealed weapons and firearm carry licenses/permits.

The State of Florida will provide twenty-four hour verification of the authenticity and status of Florida licenses. Instructions regarding the method of verification of a Florida concealed handgun permit/license will be provided as soon as the method is established.

This Reciprocity Agreement is contingent upon and shall only remain effective as long as the respective statutory authority in each state authorizing the reciprocal privileges remains effective.

This Reciprocity Agreement shall become effective upon the execution of the authorized Parties? signatures.

This Agreement may be terminated by either Party or their successor upon thirty (30) days written notice.
WITNESSETH, each Party to this Reciprocity Agreement has caused it to be executed on the date indicated below."


Thank you for your time. You were very polite and responsive to my call and I deeply appreciate your professionalism.

-TED JOHN NOGA
Reply
#23
Go get her Ted!
[Image: member955.png]
USAF (1976 -1986) NRA, GOA Anim_sniper2
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
Reply
#24
Final draft guys

Quote:Mr. Dennis Fisher,

Thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me earlier today.

I have quickly typed the questions I had for you on the phone below.

I hope this list is complete and I ask that you forgive grammatical or spelling errors.

If you need clarification please do not hesitate to contact me.

My phone number is 410-905-0544

My address is
TED JOHN NOGA
116 Minick drive
Newburgh, PA 17240

Did Attorney General Kane enter into a new agreement with florida and was agreed to by the state of Florida?

If there is a new reciprocity agreement can I please have a copy of the agreement, signed, via electronic form, fax or paper now without having to file a right to know request. If you wish to fax it I will release my fax number to you, however, I assume it would probably be prudent for you to scan the document for electronic transmission. I'm sure many people will be requesting this document and an electronic version at your fingertips will probably save you time.

If there is not a new reciprocity agreement, can I please have a copy of the current reciprocity agreement?

If there is a new reciprocity agreement when can we expect the website to be updated with the new agreement and when does it take effect?

If Attorney Genera Kane did not enter into a new agreement, how is it possible to negate the reciprocity for a Florida permit based on the residency of the individual holding the permit considering the current publicly available reciprocity agreement contains no reference to permit holders place of residence, state or otherwise?

This is further confused by the finding that " Recognition in Pennsylvania is based on the individual's issuance of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence. "

The above statement can be found on your site at the following link

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184


Furthermore. The text of the current reciprocity agreement states "This Reciprocity Agreement is contingent upon and shall only remain effective as long as the respective statutory authority in each state authorizing the reciprocal privileges remains effective."

Under what authority, given to her by law, did Attorney General Kane negate the above clause in the reciprocity agreement?

Did Attorney General Kane terminate the reciprocity agreement below?

Did Attorney General Kane send a written 30 day notice to the state of Florida as required in the reciprocity agreement quoted below?

"This Agreement may be terminated by either Party or their successor upon thirty (30) days written notice."

If so can I get a copy of that written notice without filing a right to know request?

Does this only apply to state of Florida permits/licence holders?

The reciprocity agreement (past if there is a new one or current if there is not) can be found on the Attorney General's website at the following link. Please tell me if this wording is correct.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=428

It contains this text.

"RECIPROCITY AGREEMENT

This Reciprocity Agreement by and between the State of Florida by and through the Florida Department of State, Division of Licensing, and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania by and through the Office of Attorney General.

WHEREAS, the purpose of this Reciprocity Agreement is to extend reciprocal concealed firearm carry permit/license privileges to the citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Florida,

WHEREAS, the respective state offices are authorized by statute to enter into this Reciprocity Agreement,

WHEREAS, in consideration of the matters described herein, and of the mutual benefits and obligations set forth in this Reciprocity Agreement, the Parties hereby agree and covenant as follows:

The State of Florida will recognize valid Pennsylvania permits to carry concealed firearms by valid Pennsylvania permit holders while said permit holders are present in the State of Florida.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will recognize valid Florida licenses to carry concealed firearms by valid Florida permit holders while said permit holders are present in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

This Reciprocity Agreement applies only to the carrying of firearms as defined and authorized by the applicable statutes of Pennsylvania by valid license/permit holders from the respective states and not to any other types of weapons.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Florida will inform each other of any changes in their respective carrying of concealed weapons statutes that may affect the eligibility of the recognition granted by each state.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Florida will each provide the other with copies of their current laws regarding concealed weapons and firearm carry licenses/permits.

The State of Florida will provide twenty-four hour verification of the authenticity and status of Florida licenses. Instructions regarding the method of verification of a Florida concealed handgun permit/license will be provided as soon as the method is established.

This Reciprocity Agreement is contingent upon and shall only remain effective as long as the respective statutory authority in each state authorizing the reciprocal privileges remains effective.

This Reciprocity Agreement shall become effective upon the execution of the authorized Parties? signatures.

This Agreement may be terminated by either Party or their successor upon thirty (30) days written notice.
WITNESSETH, each Party to this Reciprocity Agreement has caused it to be executed on the date indicated below."


Thank you for your time. You were very polite and responsive to my call and I deeply appreciate your professionalism.

-TED JOHN NOGA
Reply
#25
Here's my response to Kane:

Quote:Ms. Kane:

I cannot believe you had the audacity to alter the reciprocity agreement with Florida. The so called "Florida Loophole" is a myth and a complete lie.

While yes, those denied the LTCF in PA could apply for an out-of-state permit. However, did you ever once ask yourself WHY were these people denied? How about WHERE they were denied and by WHO!

If you had done any research at all you would have found out that the majority of those getting their Florida CCP since they were denied a PA LTCF are Philadelphia residents. Instead of the county Sheriff processing the applications Philly has their Gun Permit Unit (GPU).

The GPU is as corrupt as the rest of the Philly government entities. They don't follow the established licensing laws and create their own set of illegal rules.

There is a "character clause" in the LTCF wording, that is true. But the GPU takes that way too far when they deny people the right to protect themselves because they have an unpaid parking ticket. So rather than fighting the corrupt and illegal government, they take another route to legally protect themselves and their family.

What you, apparently, can't understand is that getting a CCP from Florida requires extra paperwork, firearms training and a lot more money then what it costs to get an LTCF. So every time you open your big mouth and say that getting a Florida CCP is as easy as going online, you are lying and you know it. The problem is the little pea-brained sheep that listened to your lies.

I know why your campaign against guns was only in the Philly area, because it's the only place where you could get support for your illegal gun control agenda. However, as the Attorney General you should be concentrating on the legality of the PGPU and not on taking away established rights.

I know you are going to make a bid for Governor. You will never get there. Millions of gun owners and 2nd Amendment activists in PA will make sure that you serve 1 term as AG and nothing else.

Should I click "SEND"?
NRA (Life), GOA, FOAC (Life), NAGR, AMGOA

RocketFoot's Minion since 09-07-2012
Reply
#26
billamj;77075 Wrote:Go get her Ted!

Let's she what she did. She might have entered into a new agreement, if she didn't, her words have no meaning, a judge has to take the agreement as written..

The email is sent and of course after I hit the send button I find 4 spelling errors and three grammar mistakes.. Grrr...
Reply
#27
I wish her luck.

Since there is no loophole, she's either a dumb cunt or a lying cunt.
Welcome to ObamaNation part deuxUtg
Reply
#28
Pfft. Send it if it makes you feel better but it'll get deleted.

bigdawgbeav;77077 Wrote:Here's my response to Kane:

Quote:Ms. Kane:

I cannot believe you had the audacity to alter the reciprocity agreement with Florida. The so called "Florida Loophole" is a myth and a complete lie.

While yes, those denied the LTCF in PA could apply for an out-of-state permit. However, did you ever once ask yourself WHY were these people denied? How about WHERE they were denied and by WHO!

If you had done any research at all you would have found out that the majority of those getting their Florida CCP since they were denied a PA LTCF are Philadelphia residents. Instead of the county Sheriff processing the applications Philly has their Gun Permit Unit (GPU).

The GPU is as corrupt as the rest of the Philly government entities. They don't follow the established licensing laws and create their own set of illegal rules.

There is a "character clause" in the LTCF wording, that is true. But the GPU takes that way too far when they deny people the right to protect themselves because they have an unpaid parking ticket. So rather than fighting the corrupt and illegal government, they take another route to legally protect themselves and their family.

What you, apparently, can't understand is that getting a CCP from Florida requires extra paperwork, firearms training and a lot more money then what it costs to get an LTCF. So every time you open your big mouth and say that getting a Florida CCP is as easy as going online, you are lying and you know it. The problem is the little pea-brained sheep that listened to your lies.

I know why your campaign against guns was only in the Philly area, because it's the only place where you could get support for your illegal gun control agenda. However, as the Attorney General you should be concentrating on the legality of the PGPU and not on taking away established rights.

I know you are going to make a bid for Governor. You will never get there. Millions of gun owners and 2nd Amendment activists in PA will make sure that you serve 1 term as AG and nothing else.

Should I click "SEND"?
Reply
#29
ExcelToExcel;77082 Wrote:Pfft. Send it if it makes you feel better but it'll get deleted.

Oh I know... but maybe someone in her office will actually read it
NRA (Life), GOA, FOAC (Life), NAGR, AMGOA

RocketFoot's Minion since 09-07-2012
Reply
#30
He said he is fairly confident that he can get back to me today..

We'll see. The AG's office has always been responsive to me. I suspect tomorrow or monday am though. There's a lot to digest and if there is any mistep that she took, she will be hesitant to reply to that point and might delay the process.
Reply






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