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Penn Prohibiting Concealed Carry
#1
Today is orientation at Penn for my wife. She sent me a text message earlier telling me they prohibit ccw on campus. It is my understanding they are a private school. I cannot find a law that prohibits legal concealed carry at private colleges and universities. I know this whole conversation delves into the private property rights versus constitutional law, but I'm not looking to explore that debate. I'm wondering if there is a specific law (beyond the trespass claim) that says this is lawful. In my research I have also noticed questions about whether or not post-high school educational facilities fall into the "secondary education" category in PA. Most info says No. Other info goes around the topic and doesn't answer the question. I could use some help clarifying all of this.
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#2
Any private property that says no guns is legally allowed to enforce no guns....
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#3
As RugerGirl said, it's private property. Your constitutional rights do not apply on private property.
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#4
PisnNapalm;168677 Wrote:As RugerGirl said, it's private property. Your constitutional rights do not apply on private property.

But if they refuse to bake your gay wedding cake you can sue them into oblivion.

Bizarro world....
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#5
And the problem is that academic institutions can impose some rather onerous disciplinary penalties, for which they are pretty much accountable only to themselves.

You probably wouldn't get popped for defiant trespass by a cop (except maybe a campus rent-a-cop), just told to leave.

But the school can escort you off campus, end your academic career there, and inform you not to expect a refund of the semester's tuition.
gascolator, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2012.
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#6
(08-24-2015, 03:29 PM)RugerGirl Wrote: Any private property that says no guns is legally allowed to enforce no guns....

(08-24-2015, 04:08 PM)PisnNapalm Wrote: As RugerGirl said, it's private property. Your constitutional rights do not apply on private property.
Does this mean I can now come into your home and search for whatever I want whenever I want?

This very question now brings us to the very debate I'm trying to avoid.

Religion is practiced in private property. Police need a warrant to search your property. Prohibition applied to personal property, and so did the amendment repealing prohibition. Equal treatment supplies on private property. I could go on and on. The point is, private property located within the U.S. is subject to the Constitution. If it weren't you wouldn't be allowed to deny entry to law enforcement until they have a warrant.

Remember, laws don't tell you what you can do, but what you can't do. I have yet to find a law that says you cannot exercise your Constitutional Rights in private property. If I'm mistaken, and they're does happen to be such a law, please tell me where it is so i can read it.

As for a private school, I fail to see how they can claim trespass when the person they are removing from campus has a letter of acceptance, but no letter of trespass.

(08-24-2015, 04:46 PM)gascolator Wrote: And the problem is that academic institutions can impose some rather onerous disciplinary penalties, for which they are pretty much accountable only to themselves.

You probably wouldn't get popped for defiant trespass by a cop (except maybe a campus rent-a-cop), just told to leave.

But the school can escort you off campus, end your academic career there, and inform you not to expect a refund of the semester's tuition.

Institutions, such as Penn, should be very careful here. The person they remove from campus could be a LCDR White (base commander at the NOSC in Chattanooga that fired at the attacker with his personal firearm). In this scenario, the long term impact could involve being blacklisted by the US Military. Such lists do exist.




Lastly, what I gather here is that there is no such law. That's what I was inquiring about.
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#7
And they get away with it because they call it trespassing instead of something else.

Still discrimination and unconstitutional.

Some would say concealed means concealed, I would say it's not very wise to tell people to do something illegal.Wink
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#8
Uinta Firearms;168687 Wrote:Does this mean I can now come into your home and search for whatever I want whenever I want?

No... It means that I, as the property owner, can set whatever terms I want for your use of my property or deny you use of my property altogether. You have no rights on my property. Don't like it? GTFO...
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#9
The quandary here is property rights versus other rights. As much as it gets people riled up, one has to be careful with property rights. Let them get eroded too far and all types of bad things can happen. The closest kind of relevant situation I can think of is some of the crackpot rules that have been making the news with Homeowner’s Association communities. The reason it is only kind of relevant is that you are supposed to be fully informed about these rules when you are buying the place.

Don't get me wrong, things like what these college campuses and commercial establishments are doing makes me angry. What the long term solution is that will make everyone happy, or at least accepting of personal rights versus property rights, I don't know. Home has got to be a man's castle but where do you draw the line?
sgtsandman, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2014.
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#10
There is no quandary. The moment you open up your private property to the public you shouldn't be able to restrict the constitutional rights of the public who may use your property.

Don't like it? Keep your private property private. This would still protect people in their homes and other places where the public isn't given access while protecting those who may use other private property that is open to the public.
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