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Philly GPU STILL Asking for References
#11
shademtarmory;169097 Wrote:What was said to me before was that it is not public disclosure to make inquiries of the references because the applicant provided those references knowing that they would probably be contacted.

Yes, but in most instances, they are forced to provide them, if they want the LTCF, so it's not really a "Hey, I don't mind if you do this" situation.

shademtarmory;169097 Wrote:So, basically there's nothing out there that says you don't have to provide references?

Not that I'm aware of.

I have heard that even within the PSP there is acknowledgement that it's a privacy concern, which is probably why we don't see any interference from them where Sheriffs either voluntarily forego them, or in situations where jurisdictions *must* refrain from asking for them as part of a legal settlement.
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#12
(09-12-2015, 10:52 AM)gnbrotz Wrote: Not that I'm aware of.

I have heard that even within the PSP there is acknowledgement that it's a privacy concern, which is probably why we don't see any interference from them where Sheriffs either voluntarily forego them, or in situations where jurisdictions *must* refrain from asking for them as part of a legal settlement.

PSP isn't doing anything probably because they don't know about it. After 12 years in the Sheriff's Office, I have yet to see anyone from PSP do an audit or even ask how we do the application process. Same goes for the surrounding counties.

Then again, PSP typically doesn't interfere with how Sheriffs conduct the application process. I don't think they care for one thing. And for another, they don't want anything to do with it.
"There is no hunting like the hunting of man. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
-Ernest Hemingway
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#13
shademtarmory;169099 Wrote:PSP isn't doing anything probably because they don't know about it.

I don't agree. My source on this is reliable, well-connected, and all over these types of issues in PA.

There are at least two suits ongoing that I'm aware of, where these specific issues are again in play. Whether those cases are ultimately settled or ruled on by the courts remains to be seen, and the final outcome likely won't be known on either by the end of this calendar year, and quite possibly not by the end of next year.
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#14
(09-12-2015, 12:01 PM)gnbrotz Wrote: I don't agree. My source on this is reliable, well-connected, and all over these types of issues in PA.

There are at least two suits ongoing that I'm aware of, where these specific issues are again in play. Whether those cases are ultimately settled or ruled on by the courts remains to be seen, and the final outcome likely won't be known on either by the end of this calendar year, and quite possibly not by the end of next year.

Well then you know more than I do. This is the first time I've heard of anything like this going on. Nothing has been said to us about the issue from the PA Sheriffs' Association or PSP. I'm guessing they don't consider it an issue yet? Who knows.
"There is no hunting like the hunting of man. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
-Ernest Hemingway
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#15
shademtarmory;169101 Wrote:
(09-12-2015, 12:01 PM)gnbrotz Wrote: I don't agree. My source on this is reliable, well-connected, and all over these types of issues in PA.

There are at least two suits ongoing that I'm aware of, where these specific issues are again in play. Whether those cases are ultimately settled or ruled on by the courts remains to be seen, and the final outcome likely won't be known on either by the end of this calendar year, and quite possibly not by the end of next year.

Well then you know more than I do. This is the first time I've heard of anything like this going on. Nothing has been said to us about the issue from the PA Sheriffs' Association or PSP. I'm guessing they don't consider it an issue yet? Who knows.

The existence of one of the cases I was alluding to is now public:

http://www.poconorecord.com/article/2015...19559/3327

Quote:Monroe County Sheriff Todd Martin and his office illegally disclosed confidential information about 12,584 applicants for firearms permits during a five-year period, four unidentified county residents allege in a lawsuit that could cost taxpayers $40 million.

SNIP...

The suit asserts that use of postcards — rather than sealed envelopes — in mailings approving, denying or revoking their gun license permits, and in obtaining background information from references, violates state law by making disclosures public. Information on the postcards is visible to postal employees and roommates of an applicant or a reference, plaintiffs assert.
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#16
I can understand the postcard deal. That was just stupid. But, a postcard is a far different thing than a sealed envelope.

As far as getting tax info and whatnot for residency, I don't see a need foe any of that unless the photo ID doesn't have a current address on it. I remember recently seeing a letter saying what is acceptable for ID (valid LTCF within the past 6 months, valid driver's license, etc.) I'm not sure if that came from PSP or the Sheriffs' Association. I'll have to check. It said nothing about references though.

I'm really wanting to see a Commonwealth Court case about the references issue and whether checking them is really public disclosure or not. These county level suits really don't mean anything to anyone except in the county they are dealt with.
"There is no hunting like the hunting of man. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
-Ernest Hemingway
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#17
shademtarmory;169168 Wrote:I'm really wanting to see a Commonwealth Court case about the references issue and whether checking them is really public disclosure or not. These county level suits really don't mean anything to anyone except in the county they are dealt with.

The other case that I am aware of (which AFAIK has not yet been made public) may provide that.
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#18
gnbrotz, is your references name Snowflake? On another forum? If so, I'm very interested in getting in contact with them. I know Snowflakes equal in Illinois.
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#19
Uinta Firearms;169170 Wrote:gnbrotz, is your references name Snowflake? On another forum? If so, I'm very interested in getting in contact with them. I know Snowflakes equal in Illinois.

Not that I'm aware of.
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