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Please help me out with this.
#1
Why does it seem that so many people have a stiffy for the LCP/Kel Tec P-3AT?

Now I understand it's deep conceal ability. But has anyone actually trained with it? Like REALLY trained with it, under stress? Even the tiniest amount of stress? You know, drawing it from a holster, pocket or wherever you hide it after your other gun has run dry? If so, have you done it while moving or are you static? Have you incorporated reloading, especially if you keep your stuff in your pockets? Engaging multiple targets?

These things are so tiny, I can't understand how anyone, short of a tiny child, could get a good/safe purchase on it, under stress, to fire it effectively. I've shot that platform on a static range with the understanding that the owner planned on using it as a deep cover/BUG.
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#2
Individual ergonomics is king.

My Dad had the Taurus clone and there was no way for me me to reasonably discharge it, much less accurately. Just too damn small, with an atrociously long trigger pull. Forget the pad of my finger, the trigger falls under my second joint at the start of pull - just won't work.

Tried dry firing the bigger Ruger LC9 - almost same thing, silly long trigger is almost impossible for me to pull.
With the "Safe Action" style LC9s, I can at least dry fire it reasonably well. Have to find a local friend who has one that I can try.

Really anxious to to try a Boberg X9/X9s once Bond Arms gets their version sorted out ...


So for now, I stick with my SP101 or P7s that I can empty toute-siute into a plam-sized group. Just a bit Bigger than a Shield, but certainly not a pocket gun.
-JD-, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#3
-JD-;174057 Wrote:Individual ergonomics is king.

My Dad had the Taurus clone and there was no way for me me to reasonably discharge it, much less accurately. Just too damn small, with an atrociously long trigger pull. Forget the pad of my finger, the trigger falls under my second joint at the start of pull - just won't work.

Tried dry firing the bigger Ruger LC9 - almost same thing, silly long trigger is almost impossible for me to pull.
With the "Safe Action" style LC9s, I can at least dry fire it reasonably well. Have to find a local friend who has one that I can try.

Really anxious to to try a Boberg X9/X9s once Bond Arms gets their version sorted out ...


So for now, I stick with my SP101 or P7s that I can empty toute-siute into a plam-sized group. Just a bit Bigger than a Shield, but certainly not a pocket gun.

I've got one but don't really carry it unless what I have to wear or the possible situation dictates it over any of my others. I don't consider it anything more than a belly gun or BUG, if the bad guy is 5-7 yds or closer, it's just getting stuck in their belly or chest and I'll empty it as fast as possible and get the hell outta Dodge. I'd rather have it on me than to have nothing at all.
Xringshooter, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#4
Xringshooter;174058 Wrote:I don't consider it anything more than a belly gun or BUG,

^ This right here. Self defense will, 9 times out of 10, be very up close and very personal. I don't expect to be able to get enough distance between my self & any attacker to draw, level & shoot in the traditional sense. That is where the LCP is handy to have. Why there is even sights on it is beyond me.
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#5
I think they best suited for palming when you think violence is about to ensue. I had the Keltec, and put about 300 painful, unpleasant rounds through it, to ensure reliability. It's the 2nd worst gun I've ever shot, right behind the PF9. I've had occasion to practice the palming thing, in dark parking lots at night. It would be impossible to draw from the pocket effectively, while in the midst of an attack, so training for that scenario is pointless, IMO. I have pretty small hands, and even I can palm it and look OK inconspicuous while walking.

The other alternative would be to keep your hands in your pockets, and fire from the pocket, which I've also practiced with an old coat that was getting tossed eventually. It can be done, but you risk getting the coat caught in the slide that way. It works better with wheelguns.
Unbanned since September 2012.
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#6
I feel your pain.

Literally.

With the LCP, the size of your hands is everything, and if you are a big guy with big, meaty, hands, you're going to have trouble hanging onto it, especially with the shortest magazine base! Trigger finger and one more well-padded finger just aren't going to do real well.

Then again, if you're a big guy, your concealment options are a bit better, too.

I have small hands and slender fingers, and can get a finger-and-a-half beyond the trigger finger or maybe a little more with the "ergonomic" base. But I'm also a lifelong keyboard player, and we have quite a vice-like grip when need be (make good rock-climbers, too).

Even at that, it's like hitting the web of my thumb with a ball-peen hammer.

At five yards, I can consistently get a ping-pong ball-sized group. At seven, it's not tennis-ball size, but it's headed that way. By ten, it's going to hell in a hand-basket.

This is using the (first version) sights, and not over-thinking it. Mine came with the little LaserLyte on the side, which really works well, improving the groups right out to 25 feet and more, but I don't think the luxury of time to engage it would often be afforded. The button is a bit obscure. Oh, I can think of situations where it might happen, such as when you had the drop on the bad-guy anyway. Still, I keep the batteries up to snuff.

The trigger's no better nor worse than a "hammerless" revolver. You can get used to it. It's a trade-off for no manual safety.

A bit awkward to drop the magazine, and no last-round hold-open so count. 2nd one goes in easily, but racking the slide is a bitch, and our chances of getting the web of your thumb is rather high.
gascolator, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2012.
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#7
gascolator;174080 Wrote:I feel your pain.

Literally.

With the LCP, the size of your hands is everything, and if you are a big guy with big, meaty, hands, you're going to have trouble hanging onto it, especially with the shortest magazine base! Trigger finger and one more well-padded finger just aren't going to do real well.

Then again, if you're a big guy, your concealment options are a bit better, too.

I have small hands and slender fingers, and can get a finger-and-a-half beyond the trigger finger or maybe a little more with the "ergonomic" base. But I'm also a lifelong keyboard player, and we have quite a vice-like grip when need be (make good rock-climbers, too).

Even at that, it's like hitting the web of my thumb with a ball-peen hammer.

At five yards, I can consistently get a ping-pong ball-sized group. At seven, it's not tennis-ball size, but it's headed that way. By ten, it's going to hell in a hand-basket.

This is using the (first version) sights, and not over-thinking it. Mine came with the little LaserLyte on the side, which really works well, improving the groups right out to 25 feet and more, but I don't think the luxury of time to engage it would often be afforded. The button is a bit obscure. Oh, I can think of situations where it might happen, such as when you had the drop on the bad-guy anyway. Still, I keep the batteries up to snuff.

The trigger's no better nor worse than a "hammerless" revolver. You can get used to it. It's a trade-off for no manual safety.

A bit awkward to drop the magazine, and no last-round hold-open so count. 2nd one goes in easily, but racking the slide is a bitch, and our chances of getting the web of your thumb is rather high.

Yes to all that. The P3AT was remarkably accurate at 10 yards, but it was a lot of work. And pain.

I disagree about the comparison to a snubbies trigger though. I had a 642, and the trigger was silky smooth, with a definite break. Best trigger in a revolver ever.
Unbanned since September 2012.
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#8
jahwarrior72;174079 Wrote:It would be impossible to draw from the pocket effectively, while in the midst of an attack, so training for that scenario is pointless, IMO.

That's why you should never rely on the gun alone to protect you.
I rely on me to protect me but that won't protect me from multiple attackers so something in my pocket is better that nothing. We could debate all the "what ifs" all day but none of here will ever know until put into a defensive situation and it's impossible to train for every scenario that may happen.
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#9
The thing I like best about my LCP is that it fits perfect in this compartment in my truck. Almost like the GM designer said to him/herself "Where am I gonna put my LCP so it's handy?"
[img][Image: IMAG0617_zpsdiq1rb2g.jpg][/img]
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#10
(05-20-2016, 10:22 AM)P89 Wrote: The thing I like best about my LCP is that it fits perfect in this compartment in my truck.  Almost like the GM designer said to him/herself "Where am I gonna put my LCP so it's handy?"
[img][Image: IMAG0617_zpsdiq1rb2g.jpg][/img]

Sweeet!!!! Big Grin  

The gun you have is better than the one you left at home on the nightstand!  
I carried a Walther PPK for over 25 years. Smallest/easiest I could for OWB carry.
Dannytheman, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it!

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