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Private handgun sale - obligation?
#1
Last year on July 12th I sold a Kel-Tec PF9 to a private buyer. We met at a shop and after inspecting he took possession through the normal PA transfer process. Let me say this first, to the best of my knowledge I sold him a 100% functioning firearm. (So you can see where this is going)

One month later the buyer contacts me stating that the gun doesn't work. It was the first chance he had to fire it and it looked as though the firing pin is broken or missing as there are no indentations on any primer. He was accusing me of removing the firing pin and selling him a defective gun.

I promptly replied indicating that I have never detail stripped the PF9 and to my knowledge I sold him a fully functioning firearm in as-is condition. To further the point I sent him a link to me firing the gun in a YouTube video that I made only a couple weeks before.

I told him his best bet was to contact Kel-Tec as they have a lifetime warranty. This happened on 8/7/2012... I never got any sort of response and felt the matter was closed.

So today, 5 months later he contacts me saying that I should be the one to contact Kel-Tec. He still maintains that I sold him a broken gun and that it's a fair solution for me to pay for any parts that might need replacing.

I explained that since I am no longer the owner of the gun that he should be contacting them. They might start asking questions I don't have the answers to. I told him I would try, but I'm not promising anything.

I can tell you that the gun was working to the best of my knowledge. He bought a used gun where I was the 3rd owner already. He waited a month to shoot it. Then waits another 5 months before responding again.

So what i need to know is am I way off-base here? Is it my responsibility to try and appease the buyer 6 months after the sale? Should I just ignore him? What should I do here?
NRA (Life), GOA, FOAC (Life), NAGR, AMGOA

RocketFoot's Minion since 09-07-2012
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#2
The gun transferred owners with no implied or implicit warranty from you. Tell him to get bent.
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#3
streaker69;65945 Wrote:The gun transferred owners with no implied or implicit warranty from you. Tell him to get bent.

I tried that... and then get a response 5 months later. He claimed he was "busy" but in 5 months he couldn't find 5 minutes to respond?

I do feel bad, but there is no way of knowing if he broke it somehow. I have proof that the gun worked prior to selling. Granted the proof is from a couple weeks before the sale.
NRA (Life), GOA, FOAC (Life), NAGR, AMGOA

RocketFoot's Minion since 09-07-2012
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#4
He should have checked it when he bought it, if he didn't he has no reason to complain.

Also I'm sure it was working and he's just an idiot who broke it and is too lazy to do the shipping himself.
Soldats ! Faites votre devoir ! Droit au cœur mais épargnez le visage. Feu !
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#5
If you would have sold him an old PC or Blender, would you be concerned if he came back 5 months later and said it didn't work?
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#6
streaker69;65945 Wrote:The gun transferred owners with no implied or implicit warranty from you. Tell him to get bent.

This right here. Not to mention, you fired it, and did not other work to it. When you fired it, it was a functioning firearm. It was transferred, and a month later he gets a chance to fire it and now it is broken?

Then he wants you to pay for a new part?

I am willing to guess he broke it, and doesn't want to take responsibility. Besides, if someone had sold me a broken gun, it wouldn't take me months to respond.
This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. -Ben Franklin
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#7
I convinced him to call Kel-Tec for his gun. At this point I'm going to wash my hands of the matter.

As far as I'm concerned there is video of me shooting the gun. After that video the gun was put away and not fired until the buyer dry fired in the store. He allowed one of the store employees to dry fire. If something broke, it could have been right there.

He did buy a used gun as-is with no implied warranty. Then took a month to complain and 5 more months to respond to my suggestion to call Kel-Tec.

I'm feeling better and better that I sold him a functioning firearm. Guess it's just my guilty conscience.

To top it all off I never got any feedback on PAFOA (+ or -) about it. Another guy screwed me over like that too, come to think of it.
NRA (Life), GOA, FOAC (Life), NAGR, AMGOA

RocketFoot's Minion since 09-07-2012
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#8
Hmm, it would seem that dry firing it could possibly cause issues: http://www.thektog.org/forum/f95/dry-fir...ge-237279/

Read down, someone linked to another thread about dry firing it with the slide off.

Last post from link above Wrote:To understand why dry firing the PF9 is a bad idea, you need to understand how it functions. The firing pin is held in place by the tip of the extractor screw which "rides" in a slot cut in the firing pin. The screw holds the firing pin in against the spring pressure and the slot provides enough room for the firing pin to move forward far enough (when struck by the hammer) to strike the primer. If no primer is in place to absorb the blow, however, then the firing pin slams against the retaining screw tip. Over time (sometimes very little time) this can damage or break off the tip of the screw, rendering the gun inoperable as the firing pin will then be pushed out of the gun by the spring pressure. It can also damage the firing pin itselft by deforming the slot, or even breaking the pin. There have been a number of posts over the years where this has happened, undoubtedly due to some dry firing. That forward movement of the firing pin must be absorbed by something (either a primer, or a snap cap) to avoid thiis. Some pistol designs are not a critical in this regard as the PF9, but in almost all firearms, damage to the firing pin from unrestrained movement in dry firing can damage the pin over time. In general, just not a good idea for any firearm.

I wonder if the doofus was being a cool gangsta and repeatedly dry fired it?
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#9
streaker69;65964 Wrote:Hmm, it would seem that dry firing it could possibly cause issues:
I wonder if the doofus was being a cool gangsta and repeatedly dry fired it?

Nice find. Who knows, I know he and the clerk both dry fired it a number of times. Maybe it was weakened from the same thing over the years. I know I dry fired it a couple of time, but only a couple.

I'll bet this is what happened. If the firing pin was no longer making contact with primers, something broke inside.
NRA (Life), GOA, FOAC (Life), NAGR, AMGOA

RocketFoot's Minion since 09-07-2012
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#10
You owe him nothing. You don't know what he may have done in the month between when you sold it to him and when he contacted you. You definitely need to wash your hands of this mess and forget about it completely, you've done nothing wrong.
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USAF (1976 -1986) NRA, GOA Anim_sniper2
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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