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Rape is "something god intended to happen"
#31
I fully support abortion for a variety of reasons, many of which most people don't even think about.

Most specifically, what would the US be like with another 30,000,000 minorities living in poverty and all voting in lockstep with the democrats....?

NO THANKS.

I think the Plan B pill will eventually render abortions all but obsolete.
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#32
Valorius;29403 Wrote:I fully support abortion for a variety of reasons, many of which most people don't even think about.

Most specifically, what would the US be like with another 30,000,000 minorities living in poverty and all voting in lockstep with the democrats....?

NO THANKS.

I think the Plan B pill will eventually render abortions all but obsolete.

Mr. President: Well , I agree and personally the only thing Religion and politics have in common is corruption , I don't need to be told how to act!
Mom didn't raise no fool and I will envoke the 5th , no more !
dman, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#33
Camper;29223 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;29183 Wrote:I disagree. If god intended the pregnancy, then god intended the rape.

Both are insane notions by themselves, together makes it bat shit.

Justin

*sigh*

This is going to be long.....

First, lets get the idea of free will out there. Free will means people have the ability to do whatever they want, due to free will. While God wants everyone to worship and serve Him, He gave people the choice to spit in his face and mock him because he wants people to come to Him willingly. So people's actions may not be his intent, but he can and will use them to serve His purpose, as He knows about them well in advance--but in order to ensure that free will is not compromised, intervention rarely happens--if God controlled every the action of every individual it's hardly free will, right?

So how does it apply here....well, obviously jerk-face rapes someone. It's a horrible tragedy, should NOT happen but if jerk-face is not free to be an evil asshole and rape some innocent woman, then he really doesn't possess free will.

So now we have a terrible tragedy, but as anyone who has every experienced grief or loss of any kind knows, there is sometimes a small miracle hidden within which God has given despite the terrible circumstances that spawned it.

One could point to young child getting and dying of cancer, and the grief stricken parents donating their child's body which saves another child, and then they start a foundation in their child's honor which saves even MORE lives. That is a slightly embellished real-world example, as I'm too lazy to look it up...but the point being that there are countless stories of one personal tragedy being a tool to help and/or inspire THOUSANDS of others.

A non lazy example is Randy Pausch's Last Lecture. How many people took a good hard look at their lives because of a man dying of cancer, and how many people were influenced by that speech? Can it truly be said that no good came from his death?

Do I believe that God intends people to get raped? No, I really don't. But I do believe that He will use a terrible situation to turn it into something good, just like you might use a crappy day to do something important as well.

But let's look for a moment here...let's pretend God *did* intend the rape, so that particular child could be born and accomplish great things. Ethel Waters was a famous Grammy award winning jazz/blues singer in the 20s-60s and was a very prominent black musician, and the first black Superstar....and the product of rape. She was an inspiration to MANY--black and white--and has a long list of 'firsts' in the black community in a time when those 'firsts' actually meant something, because they were big hairy deals.

And aside from that, there is always the argument that the life of the unborn is either important, or its not. Why is the life of a fetus resulting from rape LESS important or valuable than two well to do parents who planned the child, a single mom getting pregnant from a turkey baster, or your average unplanned pregnancy?

There are stories all over the web--if you want to look for them--where children of rape come out and say they are grateful for their lives. And people from wealthy families who have everything and were wanted and planned take their own lives.

You might think it all bat shit, but I'd argue that's because you're only looking at it completely from a point of view you're not willing to challenge.

Yeah, if you believe god intended a rape or pregnancy from rape, then I think you're insane..., since 1) there is no god and 2) free will under the christian model is an illusion.

Justin
[Image: pafoasig.png]
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#34
JustinHEMI;29460 Wrote:Yeah, if you believe god intended a rape or pregnancy from rape, then I think you're insane..., since 1) there is no god and 2) free will under the christian model is an illusion.

Justin

So you think Wink
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#35
Leplat;29300 Wrote:
rmagill;29182 Wrote:I do disagree that both statements are essentially the same. One says that God intends for people to be raped while the other says that God intended one of the results of a horrific act to be a life that is worthy of protection. To me, this is a signigicant difference and not simply a matter of semantics.
Thank you!!!
im tired of people all assuming that anti abortion folks are all religious. For YEARS I held an athiest view and have always been against abortion. That includes rape, with the sole exception being a danger to mom.

I'm an atheist and I think that abortion in and of itself isn't something that we as a species should encourage or embrace.

I think that we should err on the side of caution..., if we do not know for sure when life begins, then shouldn't we assume it begins at the earliest possible time?

That said, I do no support banning abortions because that would simply create a black market where the abortions would be unmonitored and unregulated and extremely dangerous. Instead of going to a sterile and safe environment, women that wanted abortions would be forced to go into some back alley to some hack with a coat hangar.

No, I'd rather they be legal and safe. I'd also support education and easy availability of contraception before an unwanted pregnancy occurs and counseling for alternatives to abortion after an unwanted pregnancy occurs. I'd also support pushing hard on the "day after" pills.

There is also the issue of women's rights, and I don't think the government has any business telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her reproductive system.

Justin
[Image: pafoasig.png]
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#36
JustinHEMI;29467 Wrote:There is also the issue of women's rights, and I don't think the government has any business telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her reproductive system.

Justin

This is the only place where you and I disagree, and that only somewhat. It is unfair to say that the man involved with the woman should have no right to be involved in the decision yet to turn around and say that should she decide to bring the child to term that he now has a commitment for the next 18+ years. Don't get me wrong, I believe that men should own responsibility for their actions but if the woman can unilaterally decide to abort or to bring the child to term how can the man be held responsible for someone else's decision?
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USAF (1976 -1986) NRA, GOA Anim_sniper2
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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#37
billamj;29472 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;29467 Wrote:There is also the issue of women's rights, and I don't think the government has any business telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her reproductive system.

Justin

This is the only place where you and I disagree, and that only somewhat. It is unfair to say that the man involved with the woman should have no right to be involved in the decision yet to turn around and say that should she decide to bring the child to term that he now has a commitment for the next 18+ years. Don't get me wrong, I believe that men should own responsibility for their actions but if the woman can unilaterally decide to abort or to bring the child to term how can the man be held responsible for someone else's decision?

Oh yeah, I didn't mention then man, but I agree, he should get equal access to the decision.

I was only speaking about the government. I hate the government.

Justin
[Image: pafoasig.png]
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#38
JustinHEMI;29476 Wrote:
billamj;29472 Wrote:This is the only place where you and I disagree, and that only somewhat. It is unfair to say that the man involved with the woman should have no right to be involved in the decision yet to turn around and say that should she decide to bring the child to term that he now has a commitment for the next 18+ years. Don't get me wrong, I believe that men should own responsibility for their actions but if the woman can unilaterally decide to abort or to bring the child to term how can the man be held responsible for someone else's decision?

Oh yeah, I didn't mention then man, but I agree, he should get equal access to the decision.

I was only speaking about the government. I hate the government.

Justin

We're good then. Big Grin I don't hate the government, I just don't trust the government. Wink
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USAF (1976 -1986) NRA, GOA Anim_sniper2
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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#39
billamj;29472 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;29467 Wrote:There is also the issue of women's rights, and I don't think the government has any business telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her reproductive system.

Justin

This is the only place where you and I disagree, and that only somewhat. It is unfair to say that the man involved with the woman should have no right to be involved in the decision yet to turn around and say that should she decide to bring the child to term that he now has a commitment for the next 18+ years. Don't get me wrong, I believe that men should own responsibility for their actions but if the woman can unilaterally decide to abort or to bring the child to term how can the man be held responsible for someone else's decision?

You have to read exactly what Justin said.......he mentioned the Government and how it is trying to regulate what a woman can and above all "MUST" do with their reproductive system.
"The colors, the colors. Has anybody seen my good friend John?" Then he lit up a banana and he hung up.

Al Bundy.
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#40
billamj;29472 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;29467 Wrote:There is also the issue of women's rights, and I don't think the government has any business telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her reproductive system.

Justin

This is the only place where you and I disagree, and that only somewhat. It is unfair to say that the man involved with the woman should have no right to be involved in the decision yet to turn around and say that should she decide to bring the child to term that he now has a commitment for the next 18+ years. Don't get me wrong, I believe that men should own responsibility for their actions but if the woman can unilaterally decide to abort or to bring the child to term how can the man be held responsible for someone else's decision?

Given that men do not give birth, are usually not the primary care givers, and have a tendency to skip out on parental responsibilities and monetary support, why should they have a say?
A gun rack in a pick-up is not for holding guns. Its a place for women to hold on to. Smile
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