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Rifle toting terrorists a threat to national power grid...
#11
streaker69;129966 Wrote:
ArcticSplash;129964 Wrote:I could plant a pipe bomb at the substation 2 blocks from me and wipe out service to an entire zip code, including my own house.

So what?


BTW, the article in the OP is over a year old.

I think it came to the forefront again because of things like this are now being revealed: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/...ical-grid/

Let's not forget that a group of foreign nationals were caught trespassing as a public water reservoir shortly after the Boston Bombing and were released with nary a look into them.


I would be more concerned if this was a grid interconnection, not your average neighborhood or municipal T&D stepdown substation; those things fry all the time but don't lead to supermassive widespread grid failures.

Those pieces of equipment don't really need supersubsidized funding to build metal shields around them. If we're talking about a very dense area where there's 1,000+ subscribers hanging off that sub, then maybe a berm or a cheap cinder wall surrounding the station is more than enough. The biggest threat to local T&D equipment is lightening strikes made worse by shitty earth connections and failure to test trip switches, after that it's input overload into the transformers.


A step station coming from the generator need a lot more security because it's far easier to attack an electricity grid by starving it of generation, especially if you can do it fast enough to trigger a cascade failure where load cannot be shed fast enough to keep up with the lost generation.

Again, the better defense there is faster reaction times to shed load and to monitor the loads of critical grid lines; something that's rapidly improved since the last great Northeast blackout. A loss of a couple of critical generation units from the grid should not result in a total cascade.


Another one that's big-time is the failure of routing. The larger a customer base is, the more the customer base needs multiple ends points to the grid. No city/metro should be dealing with a small number of failure points coming from the generation network., but many do.

That is still not fixed and it's complicated by NIMBYs who do not want high voltage towers 100+ feet above their heads. You cannot bury extremely high voltage shit underground. Manhattan for instance where you don't see any power lines running around anywhere is served by a network of stepped-down lines underground with the stations set across the rivers; there's a massive one in Brooklyn.


PECO demonstrated during the last blackout how multiple connection points, load shedding and isolation works--PECO operators had almost a minute of warning the outage was coming their way and they immediately shut off the Philly suburbs and the local segment generators to disengage from PJM Interconnect while a lot of the other participants in PJM got wiped out. A good T&D operator should always be prepared at all times to "island" their customers from the rest of the network, generators that lost their load automatically tripped open.


It's stupid to panic over a substation attack. That's all on the load side and it's a tiny part of the electricity network. A smarter dude though could do a great deal more damage if they attacked the transmission side, particularly on days of heavy demand where there's less wiggle room between generation and load.

You could attack a transmission line from a substation, but just firing bullets at a substation wouldn't do it. If you set the whole fuckin' place ablaze and got at the transmission feed lines coming to the station you might be able to sever the transmission from there, which would knock out all the downstream stations and perhaps disrupt the equipment back on the other side of the endpoint as well, knocking out a significant part of a whole metro that didn't have multiple transmission points for their substations. Doable--but before you start contractors salivating and rubbing their hands over money; it's better to see where the most obvious places are that are unprotected need protection and do those first then start a kabuki theater over a neighborhood stepdown sub.


It's like me going into my neighbor's house and setting fire to her cable modem and going "see!! I attacked the Internets!!!!"
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#12
streaker69;129955 Wrote:There is no possible way to protect every single piece of infrastructure across the entire country. For anyone to say that it's possible isn't living in reality. I can think of several ways right off the top of my head to compromise several different services with the most basic of items. Rifles aren't the problem and doing away with them won't do anything to protect the infrastructure.

http://xkcd.com/651/

[Image: bag_check.png]
I am not a lawyer.
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#13
twency;129984 Wrote:
streaker69;129955 Wrote:There is no possible way to protect every single piece of infrastructure across the entire country. For anyone to say that it's possible isn't living in reality. I can think of several ways right off the top of my head to compromise several different services with the most basic of items. Rifles aren't the problem and doing away with them won't do anything to protect the infrastructure.

http://xkcd.com/651/

[Image: bag_check.png]

Yup, and laptops that can take two battery packs, one could be a real battery and one could be C4/Semtec. Guess what? They both look really similar on the X-Ray. I really wish this security Kabuki theater would come to an end.
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#14
The ATF also said that airsoft guns can "easily be converted into fully automatic machine guns", with a straight face.
"As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God, protect my sweet ride."
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#15
People will always believe what their itching ears want to hear.
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#16
Emptymag;129958 Wrote:
streaker69;129955 Wrote:There is no possible way to protect every single piece of infrastructure across the entire country. For anyone to say that it's possible isn't living in reality. I can think of several ways right off the top of my head to compromise several different services with the most basic of items. Rifles aren't the problem and doing away with them won't do anything to protect the infrastructure.

Seriously.

To this day I'm astounded that buses didn't start blowing up in every major city after 911 and that water supplies weren't poisoned.

Two things that could have been done with relative ease that would cause more chaos than a temporary blackout.



These people are stupid beyond their years.

They still don't have seat belts on a lot of buses...I guess there's no agenda there so they won't enforce it.
Mikelets456, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Dec 2012.
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#17
Mikelets456;131055 Wrote:
Emptymag;129958 Wrote:Seriously.

To this day I'm astounded that buses didn't start blowing up in every major city after 911 and that water supplies weren't poisoned.

Two things that could have been done with relative ease that would cause more chaos than a temporary blackout.



These people are stupid beyond their years.

They still don't have seat belts on a lot of buses...I guess there's no agenda there so they won't enforce it.

They're now recommending that kids should be in boosters seats until age 8, kids must wear seatbelts. But yet, every day millions of kids get on school buses without seat belts. Won't someone please think of the children.
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#18
streaker69;131057 Wrote:
Mikelets456;131055 Wrote:They still don't have seat belts on a lot of buses...I guess there's no agenda there so they won't enforce it.

They're now recommending that kids should be in boosters seats until age 8, kids must wear seatbelts. But yet, every day millions of kids get on school buses without seat belts. Won't someone please think of the children.

Car seats......Angry *building rage*

Ranton

As funny and ridiculous as it sounds to say; the car seat racket is borderline criminal in my mind and exemplifies the over-reach and incestuous relationship between business and our corrupt government. The whole car seat crap drives me up the fucking wall. Car seats are one of the biggest scams out there.

First off, car seats have expiration dates! What the fuck is that? The first time I saw that I felt as if my brain had just tried to divide by zero. How is it that the seat belt and seats in my old car didn't disintegrate and become a deathtrap in 300,000 miles over 20 years, yet a car seat suddenly magically becomes a deathtrap after 5 years overnight. This is such bullshit, we're not talking about a Kevlar vest here made out of a chemically unstable compound, at this point in 2014 we have a pretty good handle on making good plastics that can survive longer than 5 years! It's so obvious the reason for the ridiculously short expiration dates has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with destroying the used car seat market, as it is something that could theoretically be handed down or resold.

We've also spent all this money testing, regulating and making car seats mandatory that it wastes tax money and politicians time which they could be using to far more productive effect. They've also created a public whereby if another driver sees a child not in a car seat they feel compelled to call the police and report this grave injustice against child safety that pretty much all of us old enough to be reading this forum endured without lasting damage. They've taken it so far that having a kid in your car without a car seat can put points on your license! PA actually also budgets money for a bunch of clowns to inspect the car seat installation for people who are the type of morons who can't handle reading a set of instructions or at the very least don't have one iota of common sense.

A lot of states these days are saying that once the child hits a certain weight that then they need a different kind of car seat so you need to buy another one! Many car seats cost almost as much or more than a 5 point racing harness for an adult! The other thing is if the kid is even remotely claustrophobic it turns almost any car trip longer than an hour into a living hell.

Here's the biggest kicker of all:

There is little to no evidence that for children older than 2 years that car seats provide ANY significant additional protection than standard seat-belts! On top of that car seats are engineered to perform well in only the types of crash tests required to pass the government's regulatory muster and nothing else! The fact that these plastic pieces of shit have to pass federal regulation also makes them prohibitively expensive and quashes competition in the market... like pretty much everything else the government sticks it's brown nose into.

I'm certain that the ridiculous government regulation surrounding car seats is the result of extensive lobbying efforts by car seat manufacturers who the politicians love, because any additional car seat bullshit they can throw in the path of ordinary citizens is something the politician can get up on the stump and brag about "protecting the children" during their re-election campaigns which they know the sheeple will eat right up without giving two shits about whether these regulations actually make children safer statistically. The government gets to benefit too with all the chickenshit tickets they get to write, they can in turn use to redistribute wealth and buy more votes!

Car seats are a giant racket in the name of "protecting the children" just like gun control. It's a huge joke to scam the American people out of millions of dollars in exchange for the illusion of security.

I also really wonder what parents in the US would think of this commonplace practice on the other side of the planet where people can't afford cars at all. Whether the nanny state leftists would just have a brain hemorrhage on the spot seeing this in person:

[Image: side_72922_JFV.jpg]

Economist Steve Levitt can go much deeper into the subject here if you care to look any deeper into what a huge scam this is. When I think of an 8 year old in a car seat I think of a kid whose brain development hasn't advanced far enough to master shoes that don't have velcro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0


Rantoff
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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