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Secret Service officer arrested after passing out
#11
Emoticon;24121 Wrote:
Ten*K;23420 Wrote:Secret Service Uniformed is not the same as the President's Secret Service, but both have had long running, and I mean decades of, issues with alcohol abuse. I witnessed a Presidential Detail agent down three double scotches right before going on duty.

^Yep. If you pass a fake C-note the president's guys won't come bang on your door but they'll still be Secret Service agents. Personally, I couldn't give 2 shits if the guy wants to go get smashed off duty.

Gotta agree here. Could you imagine having to deal with all members of that family every day?Stirpot
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#12
billamj;24162 Wrote:
Emoticon;24121 Wrote:^Yep. If you pass a fake C-note the president's guys won't come bang on your door but they'll still be Secret Service agents. Personally, I couldn't give 2 shits if the guy wants to go get smashed off duty.

Gotta agree here. Could you imagine having to deal with all members of that family every day?Stirpot

Yes I can. 2.5 years with Bill & Hill.
tolerance for failure meter... LOW
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#13
das;24134 Wrote:
Emoticon;24121 Wrote:^Yep. If you pass a fake C-note the president's guys won't come bang on your door but they'll still be Secret Service agents. Personally, I couldn't give 2 shits if the guy wants to go get smashed off duty.
If we had a decent President I would care. Hung over people tend to not be has sharp has those that arent.

That line of thinking is why we have to be subject to the indignity of pissing in a cup on demand to get even the most basic job nowadays. As long as your job performance isn't effected it should be none of your employer's business what you do in your home or on your off-time.
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#14
Emoticon;24466 Wrote:
das;24134 Wrote:If we had a decent President I would care. Hung over people tend to not be has sharp has those that arent.

That line of thinking is why we have to be subject to the indignity of pissing in a cup to get even the most basic job nowadays. As long as your job performance isn't effected it should be none of your employer's business what you do in your home or on your off-time.

If your job is protect someones life it sure is your employers business or its a very poor business. If you were having brain surgery would you want your surgeon working on you with a hang over? If your job doesnt involve life or death then yea OK but not in this instance.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#15
Emoticon;24466 Wrote:
das;24134 Wrote:If we had a decent President I would care. Hung over people tend to not be has sharp has those that arent.

That kind of behavior is why we have to be subject to the indignity of pissing in a cup on demand to get even the most basic job nowadays. As long as your job performance isn't effected it should be none of your employer's business what you do in your home or on your off-time.

Slight change to your text there to reflect how I feel. Don't care if you wanna get drunk, but when you're out in public it's probably best that you don't drink to the point that you attract the attention of the police and then eventually your employer.
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#16
das;24471 Wrote:
Emoticon;24466 Wrote:That line of thinking is why we have to be subject to the indignity of pissing in a cup to get even the most basic job nowadays. As long as your job performance isn't effected it should be none of your employer's business what you do in your home or on your off-time.

If your job is protect someones life it sure is your employers business or its a very poor business. If you were having brain surgery would you want your surgeon working on you with a hang over? If your job doesnt involve life or death then yea OK but not in this instance.

I think this is one of those subjects where the issue has been status quo for so long people no longer see the violation of their liberties. I personally think that the founders would have taken issue with policies like these. Applied in any other aspect in your life I suspect you would be quite angry about this sort of thing. To me mandatory drug testing borders too close to a guilty until proven innocent \ pre-crime scenario. Would I support drug testing in the work place if an employee demonstrated reasonable cause for further investigation? Yes. However by making it requisite to employment you are basically being treated as a common criminal before being hired. No matter how you look at it, it is a slippery slope. Look at it if it were applied to other arena's would you be ok with health insurance companies looking in on you to make sure you're not drinking too much? Lets look at your surgeon analogy. Doctors right out of med school in hospitals can quite often run 60+ hour weeks on call 24/7 which allows almost no time for sleep. Several studies have shown that sleep deprivation can make one's actions as sloppy as if under the influence. It's not ok for a surgeon to knock a couple back after hours, but it is ok for a hospital to work a new doctor into the ground? What about caffeine? If your brain surgeon drinks 4 cups of coffee before an operation he won't be able to keep his hands steady enough to operate on anyone. Should we test their piss for caffeine as well? Make them wear a little device that tracks their sleep? There is a line between personal responsibility and government intrusion. The more you take away personal responsibility the more society as a whole degrades into the cesspool we've created for ourselves today. It isn't the government's job or your employers job to make sure you exercise self control on your off hours, it's you job. So if you're a Secret Service agent and you show up with booze on your breath and are all wobbly you get fired. Simple. You co-workers see this and then understand that hey maybe coming to work with a hangover isn't such a good idea after all... the problem alleviates itself.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/09/20/sleep.deprivation/
The forum poster formerly known as Emoticon...
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#17
Emoticon;24559 Wrote:
das;24471 Wrote:If your job is protect someones life it sure is your employers business or its a very poor business. If you were having brain surgery would you want your surgeon working on you with a hang over? If your job doesnt involve life or death then yea OK but not in this instance.

I think this is one of those subjects where the issue has been status quo for so long people no longer see the violation of their liberties. I personally think that the founders would have taken issue with policies like these. Applied in any other aspect in your life I suspect you would be quite angry about this sort of thing. To me mandatory drug testing borders too close to a guilty until proven innocent \ pre-crime scenario. Would I support drug testing in the work place if an employee demonstrated reasonable cause for further investigation? Yes. However by making it requisite to employment you are basically being treated as a common criminal before being hired. No matter how you look at it, it is a slippery slope. Look at it if it were applied to other arena's would you be ok with health insurance companies looking in on you to make sure you're not drinking too much? Lets look at your surgeon analogy. Doctors right out of med school in hospitals can quite often run 60+ hour weeks on call 24/7 which allows almost no time for sleep. Several studies have shown that sleep deprivation can make one's actions as sloppy as if under the influence. It's not ok for a surgeon to knock a couple back after hours, but it is ok for a hospital to work a new doctor into the ground? What about caffeine? If your brain surgeon drinks 4 cups of coffee before an operation he won't be able to keep his hands steady enough to operate on anyone. Should we test their piss for caffeine as well? Make them wear a little device that tracks their sleep? There is a line between personal responsibility and government intrusion. The more you take away personal responsibility the more society as a whole degrades into the cesspool we've created for ourselves today. It isn't the government's job or your employers job to make sure you exercise self control on your off hours, it's you job. So if you're a Secret Service agent and you show up with booze on your breath and are all wobbly you get fired. Simple. You co-workers see this and then understand that hey maybe coming to work with a hangover isn't such a good idea after all... the problem alleviates itself.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/09/20/sleep.deprivation/
I see your point. you are right it does seem that you are guilty until proven innocent and I think that is wrong. JMO but I think the the problem is has you stated is the lack of personal responsibility. Its a hard one for me to call. You also make an excellent point of Doctors being over worked right out of school. I dont know how to get people to exercise self control.
And I dont agree with losing any freedoms. So Agree with your response.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#18
What the fuck is going on in the Secret Service?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/24/sec...latestnews

Quote:A Secret Service officer assigned to Vice President Joe Biden’s residence was arrested Monday for allegedly sexually assaulting a 14-year-old girl in his custody.

Hector Reynaldo Cuellar of Woodbridge, Va., was charged with three counts of aggravated sexual battery and three counts of taking indecent liberties with a child by a custodian, according to a daily incident report released by the Prince William County Police Department. He is being held without bond.

I remember all the crap that a friend of mine had to go through to get hired in uniform service with them, extensive background checks, they spoke to every reference he gave (I was one). It really seems as though the hiring standards are much lower than they were across all the departments.
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#19
streaker69;29444 Wrote:I remember all the crap that a friend of mine had to go through to get hired in uniform service with them, extensive background checks, they spoke to every reference he gave (I was one). It really seems as though the hiring standards are much lower than they were across all the departments.

Passing a background check means only that you haven't been caught.

Until the pre-crime division gets finished, all the government can do is to screen applicants for what they *have* done, instead of what they *will* do.
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#20
Camper;29466 Wrote:
streaker69;29444 Wrote:I remember all the crap that a friend of mine had to go through to get hired in uniform service with them, extensive background checks, they spoke to every reference he gave (I was one). It really seems as though the hiring standards are much lower than they were across all the departments.

Passing a background check means only that you haven't been caught.

Until the pre-crime division gets finished, all the government can do is to screen applicants for what they *have* done, instead of what they *will* do.

I believe the background check is fairly in depth though, psych evals, all kinds of stuff. A chief of police told me one time about some potential cops they had failed psych evals and weren't hired. You'd think that the secret service would be a little more strict than your local PD.
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