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Self-Defense at the Shop and Rob
#1
http://lewrockwell.com/gun-reviews/gas-s...vival.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...3i9pZ9ikcU
We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. - Patrick Henry

[Video: http://<a href="http://www.youtube.com/w...SVRrmo</a>]
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#2
Interesting how Ayoob mentions that the fewer the people know you are carrying, the better.
LisaA, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#3
I back into parking spaces, or park in a way that I don't have to reverse to leave, everywhere I go. I guess I'd put him on orange alert all the time. Rolleyes
When they come for my guns; It is not my right, at that point,
but my responsibility to respond in the name of liberty.
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#4
LisaA;21225 Wrote:Interesting how Ayoob mentions that the fewer the people know you are carrying, the better.

From everything I've read, he's extremely anti-OC. It seems as though he manages to mention something about it in every article. He likes to disguise it by simply saying "concealed is better", but it's pretty obvious what he means.

I sometimes back into or pull through spaces too. I guess I'm reason enough to make someone circle the parking lot and not go in. I get that he's a celebrity of sorts in the firearm community, but for the life of me I can't figure out why. Maybe he was relevant 20 years ago, but now? lol
rantlers, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#5
LisaA;21225 Wrote:Interesting how Ayoob mentions that the fewer the people know you are carrying, the better.

Just another reason that IMO Ayoob is a Boob.

Just like his "hand your papers(LTCF) to a police officer along with your drivers license so he is at ease" comment that he frequently tosses out there when he speaks.
Some people need to read this book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1936976021/ref=...jwbZH1GAZF

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#6
Xavier;21249 Wrote:I back into parking spaces, or park in a way that I don't have to reverse to leave, everywhere I go. I guess I'd put him on orange alert all the time. Rolleyes

You too eh, as a truck driver I know it's always easier to back in than to back out.
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#7
Xavier;21249 Wrote:I back into parking spaces, or park in a way that I don't have to reverse to leave, everywhere I go. I guess I'd put him on orange alert all the time. Rolleyes

Might I ask why?
I only ask because if I had to use my vehicle as a ram to get away, I'd rather use the back end and not the front with the airbag sensors.
Some vehicles even have fuel shutoffs that when the bags go off the vehicle dies.
Some people need to read this book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1936976021/ref=...jwbZH1GAZF

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#8
39Flathead;24086 Wrote:
Xavier;21249 Wrote:I back into parking spaces, or park in a way that I don't have to reverse to leave, everywhere I go. I guess I'd put him on orange alert all the time. Rolleyes

Might I ask why?
I only ask because if I had to use my vehicle as a ram to get away, I'd rather use the back end and not the front with the airbag sensors.
Some vehicles even have fuel shutoffs that when the bags go off the vehicle dies.

I don't know when you last tried to set off airbags in a modern car, but it's nearly impossible to make them pop without a large impact at a pretty good speed. SRS systems use inertia sensors that have a threshold that must be crossed before they will set off the bags. At low speed, the airbags themselves will do more damage to people than an impact with a seat belt alone so they're programmed to not deploy unless the injuries from the accident without the airbags will be greater than the injuries that will be caused by them.

Check out this video.
At the shop where I used to work, we had these two scrap cars that had been in accidents but were still drivable. At lunch one day we started crashing them into each other and that led to the driverless impact. That's a full throttle AWD launch across a parking lot, which makes for a much larger impact than you'll be able to create by trying to escape from a parking space. You'll hear one of the guys in the background say something like "now they'll pop" but they never did. We had been trying to blow the bags in one way or another for about an hour with no success. That's exactly how all modern airbags work.

Using the front of the vehicle to ram another car and escape is more dangerous to the cooling system (and subsequently the engine itself) than it is to any part of the SRS or fuel system. You might destroy the radiator, cause the car to overheat and do significant damage to the car. Again though, even with the radiator issue, it would take a substantial accident to push into the rad and do damage. In the video you hear a hissing noise after the impact, which is the R134a venting from the AC condenser. The Condenser sits in front of the rad in every car and would offer additional protection (but not much). In the Honda Passport in the video there was no damage to the radiator at all. We ended up driving it around bashing it up for another week before taking it to the scrap yard, and the whole time it was fully functional. Even if you did damage to your own cooling system by ramming another car, you'd be able to drive fast and quite far before doing enough damage to shut down the engine and make the car immobile.
rantlers, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#9
rantlers;24303 Wrote:
39Flathead;24086 Wrote:Might I ask why?
I only ask because if I had to use my vehicle as a ram to get away, I'd rather use the back end and not the front with the airbag sensors.
Some vehicles even have fuel shutoffs that when the bags go off the vehicle dies.

I don't know when you last tried to set off airbags in a modern car, but it's nearly impossible to make them pop without a large impact at a pretty good speed. SRS systems use inertia sensors that have a threshold that must be crossed before they will set off the bags. At low speed, the airbags themselves will do more damage to people than an impact with a seat belt alone so they're programmed to not deploy unless the injuries from the accident without the airbags will be greater than the injuries that will be caused by them.

Check out this video.
At the shop where I used to work, we had these two scrap cars that had been in accidents but were still drivable. At lunch one day we started crashing them into each other and that led to the driverless impact. That's a full throttle AWD launch across a parking lot, which makes for a much larger impact than you'll be able to create by trying to escape from a parking space. You'll hear one of the guys in the background say something like "now they'll pop" but they never did. We had been trying to blow the bags in one way or another for about an hour with no success. That's exactly how all modern airbags work.

Using the front of the vehicle to ram another car and escape is more dangerous to the cooling system (and subsequently the engine itself) than it is to any part of the SRS or fuel system. You might destroy the radiator, cause the car to overheat and do significant damage to the car. Again though, even with the radiator issue, it would take a substantial accident to push into the rad and do damage. In the video you hear a hissing noise after the impact, which is the R134a venting from the AC condenser. The Condenser sits in front of the rad in every car and would offer additional protection (but not much). In the Honda Passport in the video there was no damage to the radiator at all. We ended up driving it around bashing it up for another week before taking it to the scrap yard, and the whole time it was fully functional. Even if you did damage to your own cooling system by ramming another car, you'd be able to drive fast and quite far before doing enough damage to shut down the engine and make the car immobile.

I've done plenty of demo derbies using front wheel drive cars with airbags and fuel cut offs, that's why I was asking.
Up until 5 years ago I worked in a repair/collision shop.
I'll continue to pull in since in your entire response you never answered my question as to why you back in.

Thanks for the lesson.Rolleyes
Some people need to read this book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1936976021/ref=...jwbZH1GAZF

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#10
39Flathead;24395 Wrote:
rantlers;24303 Wrote:I don't know when you last tried to set off airbags in a modern car, but it's nearly impossible to make them pop without a large impact at a pretty good speed. SRS systems use inertia sensors that have a threshold that must be crossed before they will set off the bags. At low speed, the airbags themselves will do more damage to people than an impact with a seat belt alone so they're programmed to not deploy unless the injuries from the accident without the airbags will be greater than the injuries that will be caused by them.

Check out this video.
At the shop where I used to work, we had these two scrap cars that had been in accidents but were still drivable. At lunch one day we started crashing them into each other and that led to the driverless impact. That's a full throttle AWD launch across a parking lot, which makes for a much larger impact than you'll be able to create by trying to escape from a parking space. You'll hear one of the guys in the background say something like "now they'll pop" but they never did. We had been trying to blow the bags in one way or another for about an hour with no success. That's exactly how all modern airbags work.

Using the front of the vehicle to ram another car and escape is more dangerous to the cooling system (and subsequently the engine itself) than it is to any part of the SRS or fuel system. You might destroy the radiator, cause the car to overheat and do significant damage to the car. Again though, even with the radiator issue, it would take a substantial accident to push into the rad and do damage. In the video you hear a hissing noise after the impact, which is the R134a venting from the AC condenser. The Condenser sits in front of the rad in every car and would offer additional protection (but not much). In the Honda Passport in the video there was no damage to the radiator at all. We ended up driving it around bashing it up for another week before taking it to the scrap yard, and the whole time it was fully functional. Even if you did damage to your own cooling system by ramming another car, you'd be able to drive fast and quite far before doing enough damage to shut down the engine and make the car immobile.

I've done plenty of demo derbies using front wheel drive cars with airbags and fuel cut offs, that's why I was asking.
Up until 5 years ago I worked in a repair/collision shop.
I'll continue to pull in since in your entire response you never answered my question as to why you back in.

Thanks for the lesson.Rolleyes

woah, easy killer. I assumed you didn't know anything about cars since you said you're concerned about the airbags blowing when ramming a car. I explained that it's nearly impossible to set off airbags at low impact speeds, therefore eliminating the need for that concern. People who work at collision shops (like I do) know these things, so it was reasonable to think that you would benefit from a lengthy explanation.

As for backing in or pulling straight in, I pull straight in about 99% of the time. If it's a situation where I have any reason to be concerned with making a quick exit, I'll back in. You have multiple forward gears and only one reverse gear, the ability to continue forward and not have to turn around stop for a gear change and then move forward, front wheel steering is more stable and predictable when going forward, and a huge visual advantage looking through the entire windshield while sitting in your natural driving position as opposed to turning to look over your shoulder or using your mirrors. If you have a desire to position yourself for a potentially a quick and violent exit, it's going to be best to back into a parking space. It's a simple concept.
rantlers, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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