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Shoot and don't shoot criteria
#1
Ok, so we've seen some recent threads on this forum and the other about folks getting attacked, as well as some very dangerous situations. I figure this would be something good for folks who carry to think about if they haven't, and for others to reassess if they have.

There are numerous situations where you will have to make a choice on whether or not to draw your firearm. If you do, there will be times where you will need to decide to aim in on an attacker. If you do aim in, you will need to decide whether or not to fire.

That's three major decisions that need to get made in what's usually an incredibly short period of time: draw, aim, and fire.

For each one of those decisions there's a ton of data that your brain is processing that you may or may not be aware of. It's a constant loop that your brain is going through. A common term for it is the OODA loop: observing, orienting, deciding, and acting.

The actor who can complete that loop faster is the one who comes out ahead of the other. What helps shorten that loop is having played a few general scenarios out that can be applied to other more specific situations. That's where gaming through scenarios can help, and building criteria on what decision you should go with.

Now that doesn't mean generalize to an extreme like shoot anything that's a threat. Tons of things can be perceived as a threat, but what criteria do you have for what constitutes a threat?

Some are obvious, like having a weapon pulled on you and that weapon being a genuine threat. For example, a gun is drawn and pointed at you. Or knife is being wielded and the person is well within the ability to use it on you. Just as important is that the person with the weapon has the ability and intention of using the weapon.

Some situations are a little more ambiguous, like the guy has a weapon but hasn't demonstrated anything overtly hostile or the ability to be a direct threat yet. Maybe it's a knife and they're moving towards you, but aren't close enough to be able to use it. Or someone just fired a few rounds and suddenly stopped.

Some situations are obvious, but in a good way. Someone has a weapon, but it's holstered and they're carrying about their business like everyone else. Example: open carrier shopping for groceries.

The obvious situations are fairly easy to cycle through that loop. The ambiguous ones are not so much. That's where figuring out what criteria you have for what pushes a situation from ambiguous to clear is important. You've already observed and oriented yourself on something. Now you need to process all of that and make a decision.

Keep in mind that once you decide and act you'll have to justify your decisions and actions. While things might be clear to you, you're going to have to make it even clearer to someone else. We all say it's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six, but you damn well better be able to convince those twelve afterwards.

Note, I'm not trying to start a pissing match or anything. I just found it useful to have things to think over and think through.

[Image: 21122657_10155704889299275_8952212329936901321_o_2.jpg]
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#2
ShaulWolf;13540 Wrote:Ok, so we've seen some recent threads on this forum and the other about folks getting attacked, as well as some very dangerous situations. I figure this would be something good for folks who carry to think about if they haven't, and for others to reassess if they have.

There are numerous situations where you will have to make a choice on whether or not to draw your firearm. If you do, there will be times where you will need to decide to aim in on an attacker. If you do aim in, you will need to decide whether or not to fire.

That's three major decisions that need to get made in what's usually an incredibly short period of time: draw, aim, and fire.

For each one of those decisions there's a ton of data that your brain is processing that you may or may not be aware of. It's a constant loop that your brain is going through. A common term for it is the OODA loop: observing, orienting, deciding, and acting.

The actor who can complete that loop faster is the one who comes out ahead of the other. What helps shorten that loop is having played a few general scenarios out that can be applied to other more specific situations. That's where gaming through scenarios can help, and building criteria on what decision you should go with.

Now that doesn't mean generalize to an extreme like shoot anything that's a threat. Tons of things can be perceived as a threat, but what criteria do you have for what constitutes a threat?

Some are obvious, like having a weapon pulled on you and that weapon being a genuine threat. For example, a gun is drawn and pointed at you. Or knife is being wielded and the person is well within the ability to use it on you. Just as important is that the person with the weapon has the ability and intention of using the weapon.

Some situations are a little more ambiguous, like the guy has a weapon but hasn't demonstrated anything overtly hostile or the ability to be a direct threat yet. Maybe it's a knife and they're moving towards you, but aren't close enough to be able to use it. Or someone just fired a few rounds and suddenly stopped.

Some situations are obvious, but in a good way. Someone has a weapon, but it's holstered and they're carrying about their business like everyone else. Example: open carrier shopping for groceries.

The obvious situations are fairly easy to cycle through that loop. The ambiguous ones are not so much. That's where figuring out what criteria you have for what pushes a situation from ambiguous to clear is important. You've already observed and oriented yourself on something. Now you need to process all of that and make a decision.

Keep in mind that once you decide and act you'll have to justify your decisions and actions. While things might be clear to you, you're going to have to make it even clearer to someone else. We all say it's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six, but you damn well better be able to convince those twelve afterwards.

Note, I'm not trying to start a pissing match or anything. I just found it useful to have things to think over and think through.

Threatening enough to see red; shoot. OCer's don't generally cause me to see red. Someone coming towards me or someone else threateningly with a knife does.

I've thought about it, and the way I see it is, well, I've got faith. That's pretty much it. I've got full faith and confidence in my fate and future regardless of what situations may occur. I keep my powder dry in-case it's needed but I believe such things are out of my hands though I don't assume it precludes action on my part to see it though.

Hope that makes sense.
"As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God, protect my sweet ride."
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#3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_AUn87uP...detailpage

check this out this is a good video i found and is good info
swamp8fox, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#4
That video is outdated and he is a douche...


-Chaz
I love guns... And boobs...
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#5
Chazman321;14027 Wrote:That video is outdated and he is a douche...


-Chaz

Why is he a douche?
donotknowme, member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
I am a unique & individual snowflake just like everyone else.
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#6
donotknowme;17445 Wrote:
Chazman321;14027 Wrote:That video is outdated and he is a douche...


-Chaz

Why is he a douche?

Because he cleans vaginas. Leaving them refreshed and odor free.
"As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God, protect my sweet ride."
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#7
Did you even watch the video? lol PA does have the stand your ground law, which make the video outdated.

As for him being a douche:
1. A 3.5# trigger makes you look like a maniac and automatically guilty?
2. In no way should a gun ever be modified from how it came from the factory. Sorry, those night sights just made you a ninja assassin.
3. Adding a safety to your Glock will give you brownie points if you ever have to shoot someone, because 3 safeties aren't enough, you need to add a thumb safety as well! Add safeties to your other guns while you're at it.
4. Oh, and don't buy a gun with the wrong name, because if you ever need to use it you'll go straight to prison...

He makes me want to run out, bling up my 1911, take the trigger to a crisp 5 ounces, add in a laser, get "Thug Whacker" laser engraved on the slide, disable my grip safety, drop safety, and thumb safety, and then OC it down the street wearing a pink tutu covered in green jello while reading a Playboy. Just because I know it would piss him off...


-Chaz
I love guns... And boobs...
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#8
Chazman321;18098 Wrote:Did you even watch the video? lol PA does have the stand your ground law, which make the video outdated.

As for him being a douche:
1. A 3.5# trigger makes you look like a maniac and automatically guilty?
2. In no way should a gun ever be modified from how it came from the factory. Sorry, those night sights just made you a ninja assassin.
3. Adding a safety to your Glock will give you brownie points if you ever have to shoot someone, because 3 safeties aren't enough, you need to add a thumb safety as well! Add safeties to your other guns while you're at it.
4. Oh, and don't buy a gun with the wrong name, because if you ever need to use it you'll go straight to prison...

He makes me want to run out, bling up my 1911, take the trigger to a crisp 5 ounces, add in a laser, get "Thug Whacker" laser engraved on the slide, disable my grip safety, drop safety, and thumb safety, and then OC it down the street wearing a pink tutu covered in green jello while reading a Playboy. Just because I know it would piss him off...


-Chaz

AHAHAh omg I needed that laugh much Big Grin Thank you
DON'T TREAD ON ME.
One Man Wolf Pack.
Always stay invisible.
Proud to be a loser at PA2A Whack
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#9
AndrewG23;18628 Wrote:
Chazman321;18098 Wrote:Did you even watch the video? lol PA does have the stand your ground law, which make the video outdated.

As for him being a douche:
1. A 3.5# trigger makes you look like a maniac and automatically guilty?
2. In no way should a gun ever be modified from how it came from the factory. Sorry, those night sights just made you a ninja assassin.
3. Adding a safety to your Glock will give you brownie points if you ever have to shoot someone, because 3 safeties aren't enough, you need to add a thumb safety as well! Add safeties to your other guns while you're at it.
4. Oh, and don't buy a gun with the wrong name, because if you ever need to use it you'll go straight to prison...

He makes me want to run out, bling up my 1911, take the trigger to a crisp 5 ounces, add in a laser, get "Thug Whacker" laser engraved on the slide, disable my grip safety, drop safety, and thumb safety, and then OC it down the street wearing a pink tutu covered in green jello while reading a Playboy. Just because I know it would piss him off...


-Chaz

AHAHAh omg I needed that laugh much Big Grin Thank you

No problem, I'm here all week... lol


-Chaz
I love guns... And boobs...
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#10
Jeez, I don't know, guys...while the video is not current, I believe it has some valuable points.

1. If one has to shoot a bad guy, and you're carrying "The Judge", I see trouble in your future.

2. "Reasonableness" is a concept utilized by every one of us: would you shoot a guy who's stealing bread? Probably not. Attacking your loved ones? Of course.

3. I've experienced the "call 911 first" flap. And I can tell you: I should've called sooner...it DOES make a difference.

There's more that spoke to me, but the bottom line for me: take what you can use, leave the rest behind. Just some food for thought.
With cheese, Grommet.
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