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Silver and gold, etc
#1
We started discussing this in the ammo panic buying thread but thought it deserved its own thread.

I just started buying a little silver and gold from JM Bullion. We don't have a lot of money but I thought it would be a good way to prep a little, or at the very least have some money put away here and there in a form not easily spent except for emergencies. I also purchased silver flags for all the adults in my family for Christmas.

Questions..... Are the rolls of 1/10th ounce silver coins a good idea? They are more expensive, but would be good for a currency failure, I guess.

Also do you guys buy copper at all? They have some pretty copper coins, but I don't know if they are actually worth buying?

Are platinum and palladium worth buying?

I did buy one tiny bit of gold in hopes that prices eventually go up. That is more of an investment than a prep thing though I guess.

Any other good ideas for limited income, safe investing? Other than ammo, which we are also gonna try to do on a monthly basis this year. We have several guns but not nearly enough ammo if we actually needed to use them.
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#2
RugerGirl;171251 Wrote:We started discussing this in the ammo panic buying thread but thought it deserved its own thread.

I just started buying a little silver and gold from JM Bullion. We don't have a lot of money but I thought it would be a good way to prep a little, or at the very least have some money put away here and there in a form not easily spent except for emergencies. I also purchased silver flags for all the adults in my family for Christmas.

Questions..... Are the rolls of 1/10th ounce silver coins a good idea? They are more expensive, but would be good for a currency failure, I guess.

Also do you guys buy copper at all? They have some pretty copper coins, but I don't know if they are actually worth buying?

Are platinum and palladium worth buying?

I did buy one tiny bit of gold in hopes that prices eventually go up. That is more of an investment than a prep thing though I guess.

Any other good ideas for limited income, safe investing? Other than ammo, which we are also gonna try to do on a monthly basis this year. We have several guns but not nearly enough ammo if we actually needed to use them.
Gold is to rich for my blood, 1,000+ bucks an once. wow

I have some silver coins but you pay a premium, I buy 1oz rounds and Johnson mathey silver bars 1oz, I've been seeing the rounds and bars a dollar or less over spot..

just in case you want another store, I buy from silver.com I always order then send a check to take advantage of the price break, never had a problem
With the Second Amendment saying what it says, Why isn't the Federal Government Suing NY
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#3
51158;171254 Wrote:
RugerGirl;171251 Wrote:We started discussing this in the ammo panic buying thread but thought it deserved its own thread.

I just started buying a little silver and gold from JM Bullion. We don't have a lot of money but I thought it would be a good way to prep a little, or at the very least have some money put away here and there in a form not easily spent except for emergencies. I also purchased silver flags for all the adults in my family for Christmas.

Questions..... Are the rolls of 1/10th ounce silver coins a good idea? They are more expensive, but would be good for a currency failure, I guess.

Also do you guys buy copper at all? They have some pretty copper coins, but I don't know if they are actually worth buying?

Are platinum and palladium worth buying?

I did buy one tiny bit of gold in hopes that prices eventually go up. That is more of an investment than a prep thing though I guess.

Any other good ideas for limited income, safe investing? Other than ammo, which we are also gonna try to do on a monthly basis this year. We have several guns but not nearly enough ammo if we actually needed to use them.
Gold is to rich for my blood, 1,000+ bucks an once. wow

I have some silver coins but you pay a premium, I buy 1oz rounds and Johnson mathey silver bars 1oz, I've been seeing the rounds and bars a dollar or less over spot..

just in case you want another store, I buy from silver.com I always order then send a check to take advantage of the price break, never had a problem


I only bought a tiny 2 gram bar of gold.

So far besides the tiny gold chip (lol) I have two silver flag bars, and two other silver bars. The bars seem to be generally the best buy.....but not as useable as the smaller coins, I wouldn't think.

So you don't think a person needs coins smaller than an ounce?
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#4
Any bulk item that could be used for currency is a good idea. Regarding the cooper/silver/gold ownership, it depends on what you are looking to get out of it in the long term. Copper is cheap. But storing $5000 of copper coin is a pain in the ass. Silver prices are pretty low and might actually give you your highest gains in the short term. And we all know the golden rule. "He who has the gold makes the rules."
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#5
RugerGirl;171255 Wrote:
51158;171254 Wrote:Gold is to rich for my blood, 1,000+ bucks an once. wow

I have some silver coins but you pay a premium, I buy 1oz rounds and Johnson mathey silver bars 1oz, I've been seeing the rounds and bars a dollar or less over spot..

just in case you want another store, I buy from silver.com I always order then send a check to take advantage of the price break, never had a problem


I only bought a tiny 2 gram bar of gold.

So far besides the tiny gold chip (lol) I have two silver flag bars, and two other silver bars. The bars seem to be generally the best buy.....but not as useable as the smaller coins, I wouldn't think.

So you don't think a person needs coins smaller than an ounce?

correct, I buy ounces simply because of the bang for the buck, I don't buy silver for the apocalypse, I buy silver because it's safe in terms of inflation..

I'm one that believes inflation will become more noticeable..our petrol dollar could be changing, once the majority of the world stops using our dollar to buy oil the proverbial swhtf.. and that's when you sell your silver, IMO you won't use it for trade, most likely most will sell to jewelry stores or places that setup to buy Silver & Gold.. that's how I see it playing out..



A story I'll always tell


I bought 2 - 1/4 gold coins (5dollar coin) and 1 - 1/10th coin
I paid 220 for the 2 - 1/4ozs and I want to say 40 something for the 1/10th coin..

a few years ago, gold was about 1800 dollars an ounce, needless to say I don't own those coins anymore. Took them to the jewelry up the road..

Those coins plus 100 bucks bought me a new gen3 Glock27 and a aimpoint "Pro"

Those coins got me 880 bucks..you see what i'm trying to say, precious metals you won't loose money, if you notice the market occasionally you could make out, As I did.
With the Second Amendment saying what it says, Why isn't the Federal Government Suing NY
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#6
Just be aware that gold coins and precious metal bullion are not readily spendable items. Gold does more to maintain and protect your already existing wealth than it is useful as a means of either barter or exchange. Hot items to have on hand for barter include: Clorox bleach, salt, certain medical supplies, and condiment spices and hot sauces. Ammunition and matches are always, 'biggies'.
L'enfer c’est les autres, et les choses terribles qu'ils font!'  -  Jean-Paul Sartre  
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#7
RugerGirl;171251 Wrote:We started discussing this in the ammo panic buying thread but thought it deserved its own thread.

I just started buying a little silver and gold from JM Bullion. We don't have a lot of money but I thought it would be a good way to prep a little, or at the very least have some money put away here and there in a form not easily spent except for emergencies. I also purchased silver flags for all the adults in my family for Christmas.

Questions..... Are the rolls of 1/10th ounce silver coins a good idea? They are more expensive, but would be good for a currency failure, I guess.

Also do you guys buy copper at all? They have some pretty copper coins, but I don't know if they are actually worth buying?

Are platinum and palladium worth buying?

I did buy one tiny bit of gold in hopes that prices eventually go up. That is more of an investment than a prep thing though I guess.

Any other good ideas for limited income, safe investing? Other than ammo, which we are also gonna try to do on a monthly basis this year. We have several guns but not nearly enough ammo if we actually needed to use them.

A few of thoughts on the PM thing.

1) Fractional coins carry the highest premium. The 1/10 oz silver coins cost much more per ounce than a single 1 oz round. My local coin shop charges just $1.50 over spot for 1 oz silver rounds. That same 1 oz as ten 1/10th oz rounds would carry a $14.50 premium (eg. APMEX has 1/10 oz @ $2.84 ea. where spot = $13.90)

If you're looking for < 1 oz. silver pieces then "junk" silver (1964 and older US 10,25 and 50 cent 90% silver coins) is the way to go. A roll of (50) silver dimes runs would run me $57 at my LCS. That roll contains 3.62 oz. of silver which comes to $15.75 per oz. At today's $13.90 spot price your premium is only $1.85 per oz.

2) Silver is a better deal than Gold at the moment. The reason being is the ratio of silver to gold. Right now the ratio is near historic highs at nearly 77 to one. At some point that ratio is gonna swing back when the price of gold crashes (unlikely) or the silver price goes up. Months back I traded in my gold (only a couple of oz.) for silver and it was pretty cool to take home a huge stack of 10 oz silver bars. When the ratio swings back (say around 50 to one) I may trade them back for gold again. Most coin dealers and mints will exchange them at current ratio without too much trouble.

3) Precious metals are a store of value and a way of saving. They don't spoil and they don't take up a ton of space so it's a great way to preserve wealth. If you don't think inflation or a currency devaluation (like China had a few months ago) is in the cards then PMs are probably not for you. In my opinion, they are not a vehicle for turning a quick buck although that can happen if you time things right.
Ammunition, it's the new lead bullion. Buy it cheap and stack it deep.
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#8
I'm still confused by you asking about 1/10 ounce coins.
Do you mean rounds?
Rounds are not coins, they have no monetary value, their only value is in their silver content.

I buy rounds only to top off an order to get free shipping or when they run insanely low over spot deals on them.


Someone mentioned bartering if the SHTF.
That sounds great, until you realize a few things:
What are you going to barter for? Say you have toilet paper, and everyone wants it, what are they going to give you for it if they didn't stock up themselves?
Matchbox cars? A pair of socks?

Ammo for barter, depending on the scale of the collapse that would require people to barter, the guy that people find out that has a pile of ammo and guns is going to be a target.
If the SHTF, I'm not going to be out advertising that I have 43 cans of ammo in my garage, basement and a storage locker.

By having and offering items for barter, you will become the person that has more than they need because you have enough spare stuff to trade away.
You will become a target.

I want to be the guy that is "just scraping by", not the guy with boxes of ammo and cases of toilet paper and vodka stacked in my house that everyone knows about.


I stock for the short term. I buy silver as an investment and hedge and only intend it for barter if a SHTF turns longterm.


Read about the Argentine collapse, some insights there on what to expect in a SHTF.

This is just my opinions, I'm not some diehard prepper or economist so maybe I'm way off...
Some people need to read this book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1936976021/ref=...jwbZH1GAZF

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#9
Silver rounds do carry a fairly high premium, 'junk' silver usually sells for a lower premium. "Junk" isn't really junk, it's just the coin shop term applied because it's not as valuable as bullion, or rounds, nor as valuable as coins with numismatic value. The coin shop I deal with has a local reputation as being fair and honest, today they are selling one ounce American Silver Eagles at spot +$5.00, that's about 30% premium. With an ounce of silver spot price at $15.52 an ASE was selling at $20.47. That's a pretty hefty premium, (about 32%). On top of that, when they buy they don't pay spot price, they pay somewhere around 15% - 20% below spot. That being said, if you want to buy silver bullion as an investment, the spot price will have to go up about 50% if you want to break even. The price has to nearly double to see any appreciable monetary gain, but that gain is offset by inflation so even if you "break even" on the ± premiums it's a waiting game and a gamble. The only way I know of to beat that racket is to buy from and sell to individuals with no premiums involved. I'm sure you've seen the ads in the classified section of your local newspaper, "Highest prices paid for silver". If it's an ad by an honest buyer, they will offer to pay you the current spot price, whereas a coin shop will offer them 15% - 20% below spot. That's a winning proposition for each of the private parties. The seller will get 15 - 20% more than they would get from a dealer, and the buyer will pay 25%-30% less than buying from a shop. If you sell your silver to a jewelry store you can probably expect a similar difference in prices, (They have overhead to cover). Selling on eBay may not be attractive to some people for various reasons, but people will buy on eBay for prices that are approximately equal to coin shop prices, so there's a chance that you may be able to sell there for slightly more than spot but not as much as the dealers get with their premium. (Keep postage cost in mind). I've never dealt with a jewelry store so I'm not speaking from first hand experience to that point. A pawn shop will buy at about 50% less than spot, or maybe even worse. Several months ago I was talking to a woman at work who takes care of the vending machines and cash jar in the lunch room and she told me that once in a while she finds a silver coin in the mix. I asked her what she does with it and she told me she was taking it to a pawn shop because they gave her more than face value for it. I asked for an example and she told me that the last batch she took in they gave her a bit more than $3.50 for it. I asked for the mix of coins and she told me. I looked up the current values and told her that I would have given her about $13.00 for those coins. She has started selling the coins to me, but there haven't been many, and not very often, (and that's OK with me because I've been really short on money lately so I'd have a hard time buying any quantity).
As far as size/denominations are concerned, one ounce billion, (bars or rounds), may come in handy for larger purchases but for smaller purchases when cash is a rarity, smaller denominations sure would come in handy. Silver coins should always be acceptable to almost anyone for barter, trade and outright cash deals. Having 'junk' silver, (basically speaking 'junk' silver consists of dimes, quarters and half dollars minted before 1965 in average circulated condition). Those coins are 90% silver and 10% copper, (for added hardness and strength). I'm not a fan of "collectible coins, (with numismatic value), because when times get tough collectible coins that are "worth a lot more than average" coins like it are going to be harder to sell and I think that people will lose value if they have to sell in desperation).
If you have all one ounce rounds and silver is at $20.00/ounce and you try to make a deal you're basically trying to deal with all $20.00 bills when people may or may not have change. If you have quarters, (which are 90% silver), you have coins that have a silver content of about .22 oz., which at $20.00/oz. would be worth a bit less than $4.50. (More precisely $4.40).
A dime is 2.5 grams of alloy, actual silver content of .088 oz, which at $20.00/oz. would have a value of $1.76.
Nickels minted from 1942 through 1845 have a silver content of 35%. At $20.00/oz. that would give them a value of about $1.12 each,. (You can see the benefit that having smaller denominations would make trading much easier from the aspect of "making change" or getting closer to the asking price).
Pennies minted before 1982 are 95% copper and should hold their value like silver does, as the price of metals goes up the price of copper pennies will follow. The spot price of copper at the moment is $2.26 /pound, making the actual metal content value of a pre-1982 penny about 1.5¢. Pennies minted after 1982 are 97.5% zinc and at the moment have an actual value, (in metal content), of a little less than ½¢ each.
Modern nickels are made of the same copper/nickel alloy that they have always been made of, (75% copper, 25% nickel), except during the WWII years when they were 35% silver. I feel that they will hold their face value fairly well in the event of economic collapse, (regular, modern nickels, not the more valuable "war nickels"). What's it going to hurt to get a roll of nickels when you go to the bank for anything? If nothing else you might get extremely lucky and find a "war nickel" in the roll. It's only $2.00 for a roll and it shouldn't lose value but might yield a coin that's almost as valuable as the whole roll. (Rolls new from the mint have a 0% chance of having a "war nickel", ask for rolls that customers have taken in for exchange.
(Side note about nickels; Long ago there were "three cent nickels" which were 3¢ coins made of copper nickel alloy. there were also Canadian 5¢ coins made of silver, they are not "nickels" but that's getting into a completely different realm of coins and collecting/investing as opposed to prepping.
As a reference source, here is a link to a site that tracks spot prices of some metals and calculates the value of various coins based on the current spot price:
http://www.coinflation.com/
My opinion on the subject is this: If you're looking to buy silver or gold as an investment, be prepared to sit on it for a long time waiting for it to double or more in price, (unless you have a source to obtain some at a reasonable price, with little to no premium, AND a plan to sell it somehow that doesn't involve the dealer's premium).
If you're looking to have some on hand as currency in the event of an economic collapse, I think I prefer the 'junk' silver because of the versatility of smaller denominations combined with the lower premiums when buying.
You really can't go wrong with 'junk' silver if you buy it right. in 1964 a gallon of regular gasoline was about 25¢ - 30¢ per gallon. The quarter that would buy that gallon og gas in 1964 is now worth about $2.81, which is a bit more than the cost of a gallon of gas today.
The one thing that I wonder about is this; In the event of a fiscal collapse, what are the chances that we will have easy access to the internet or any other reliable source to keep track of the current price of silver so everyone can agree on an exchange value for goods and services?
If you can't afford to buy silver and gold, look at your pennies, older than 1980 are worth saving, newer than 1982 you might as well spend them or exchange them for dollars when you accumulate enough.
Two other possible, (but unlikely), sources of silver coins are: Look for half dollars dated 1965 through 1970, those dates contain 40% silver. (See the link posted above for current prices of those half dollars).
If you see a Coin Star" or other similar coin counting machine, (common in banks and grocery stores), look in the tray where rejected coins go. Any coins that aren't perfect are rejected. That rejection could be due to size, (foreign coin), damage, or weight, (foreign OR silver coins). I've found a few 40% silver halves by asking for them, (but to be polite I'll take any halves they want to trade for dollars, and that can be pretty many depending on the store and the person on the register), but only one silver dime by looking in the reject tray of the machines at the local grocery stores.
There are three types of people in the world:
Those who make things happen,
Those who watch things happen,
And those who wonder what happened.
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#10
I never understood buying silver or other precious metals for "barter" items in case of long term SHTF. If the S has HTF long term, what the hell do I want with your silver? What would I use it for? Store it and hope the fan clears, and now I have silver I can sell? Sorry, I'm keeping my food and TP unless you can come up with something I actually need to survive.

Buying as an investment, with the assumption that live is going to go on as normal, I understand.
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