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State Park OC Test
#11
JustinHEMI;128768 Wrote:I think you ought to run this by gunlawyer at the other site. I have a feeling that this wouldn't establish standing, but IANAL.

Secondly, who would take up the case? Meaning, which of us would devote the time, money, and effort to do it?

Justin

I think something like this might be better discussed with Joshua Prince than Phil Kline. Not knocking Kline's credentials, but he is primarily an estate laywer and litigator, while Prince seems to be more cut out for civil rights-type cases; he's currently involved in the Erie case, so he might be a bit busy, but it can't hurt to talk to him.

As faras devoting time and money...I dunno. I'm certainly willing to take part in something, but I'm nowhere near financially stablle enough to do what id like to do. So far, all I've done is just go about my business, open carrying in Lackawanna State Park the past two summers, with no negative interactions with park rangers.
Unbanned since September 2012.
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#12
JustinHEMI;128768 Wrote:I think you ought to run this by gunlawyer at the other site. I have a feeling that this wouldn't establish standing, but IANAL.

Secondly, who would take up the case? Meaning, which of us would devote the time, money, and effort to do it?

Denial of a permit certainly would establish standing, as the only recourse would be the court. Once you're seeking redress for yourself, you have standing, by definition.

My big fear would be that it would backfire. The impression is that DCNR is quietly not enforcing the rule; the gent I've talked to at Sen. McIlhenney's office believes that may well be the case.

Push them, and they might make a point of enforcement, which wouldn't be good for some poor sucker who got nailed.
gascolator, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2012.
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#13
gascolator;128822 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;128768 Wrote:I think you ought to run this by gunlawyer at the other site. I have a feeling that this wouldn't establish standing, but IANAL.

Secondly, who would take up the case? Meaning, which of us would devote the time, money, and effort to do it?

Denial of a permit certainly would establish standing, as the only recourse would be the court. Once you're seeking redress for yourself, you have standing, by definition.

My big fear would be that it would backfire. The impression is that DCNR is quietly not enforcing the rule; the gent I've talked to at Sen. McIlhenney's office believes that may well be the case.

Push them, and they might make a point of enforcement, which wouldn't be good for some poor sucker who got nailed.


I would contact Best Laws; out of Sunbury PA. She specializes in civil rights litigation, is very pro-2A...and is does not have the baggage of some other lawyers. My 2 cents.
PAMedic, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Jul 2013.
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#14
What Park? This is something that needs to cleared up once and for all.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#15
das;139698 Wrote:What Park? This is something that needs to cleared up once and for all.

Every state park
Stonewall, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#16
Stonewall;139699 Wrote:
das;139698 Wrote:What Park? This is something that needs to cleared up once and for all.

Every state park

*In Pennsylvania* Wink
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

William Pitt
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#17
JustinHEMI;128768 Wrote:I think you ought to run this by gunlawyer at the other site. I have a feeling that this wouldn't establish standing, but IANAL.

Secondly, who would take up the case? Meaning, which of us would devote the time, money, and effort to do it?

Justin
It.does.establish standing.and.it.was.my.idea.vs. limerick township... limerick township.supervisor and.I.had a.martini several.times. he basicaly said he'd never let.limeric.give.me.standing at anytime. That was back.when greg and melenie.haine.came.to.limerick for our picnic. We were.left alone even though the.cops.were.there and we.were.pointed.out.

I like phil but he can never give a clear position on anything just that it may or.may not work and nothing is.worth the risk..

jahwarrior72;128801 Wrote:
JustinHEMI;128768 Wrote:I think you ought to run this by gunlawyer at the other site. I have a feeling that this wouldn't establish standing, but IANAL.

Secondly, who would take up the case? Meaning, which of us would devote the time, money, and effort to do it?

Justin

I think something like this might be better discussed with Joshua Prince than Phil Kline. Not knocking Kline's credentials, but he is primarily an estate laywer and litigator, while Prince seems to be more cut out for civil rights-type cases; he's currently involved in the Erie case, so he might be a bit busy, but it can't hurt to talk to him.

As faras devoting time and money...I dunno. I'm certainly willing to take part in something, but I'm nowhere near financially stablle enough to do what id like to do. So far, all I've done is just go about my business, open carrying in Lackawanna State Park the past two summers, with no negative interactions with park rangers.
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#18
On a related note, PennDOT has seen fit to put up "no guns" symbols on many of their centers, and at least one person has had a problem as a result of it.

Is this not the same thing?
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

William Pitt
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#19
As someone else has pointed out elsewhere, it seems that preemption covers counties and municipalities but not the state itself, or its agencies!
gascolator, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Nov 2012.
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#20
Curmudgeon;139732 Wrote:On a related note, PennDOT has seen fit to put up "no guns" symbols on many of their centers, and at least one person has had a problem as a result of it.

Is this not the same thing?

There was an update to that thread yesterday, you may have missed it. PennDOT came out and said that the majority of their centers are managed by a private entity, so it's a private property issue that they claim to have no control over.

So as I postulated, an agency or municipality that's under preemption could easily lease their land to a "management" organization and that group could then set very strict rules.
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