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Supreme Court May Get Second Chance to Kill Obamacare
#11
All this talk that millions of uninsured Americans will now have insurance for healthcare is complete garbage. The uninsured have always had access to healthcare in this country. It's called the hospital emergency room, which must treat you regardless of your financial ability to pay. If they qualified, Medicaid covered the bill for the poor and Medicare for the elderly.
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#12
Using the ER isn't healthcare, it's medical treatment, and the most expensive kind of medical treatment. That in and of itself is a major component of our healthcare costs. Any solution, whether Obamacare or whatever the Republicans think they're going to offer (we haven't heard anything yet about their solution), has to be cheaper than ER treatment. Preventive care and regular physicals can do a lot to cut down on medical treatment costs. But ERs can't do regular physicals, can't do preventive care.

I didn't use to care about healthcare costs. I worked full-time and my employer provided it as part of my compensation. But for the last three years I've been buying my own healthcare insurance, I've been in the middle of this business, and I can tell you it sucks, big time. I'm ready to try anything different, even if it means starting with Obamacare and then changing it down the road into something more palatable.
-gonzo
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#13
Jon Doe;119941 Wrote:All this talk that millions of uninsured Americans will now have insurance for healthcare is complete garbage. The uninsured have always had access to healthcare in this country. It's called the hospital emergency room, which must treat you regardless of your financial ability to pay. If they qualified, Medicaid covered the bill for the poor and Medicare for the elderly.

Yep, and I just love paying emergency room care prices for it out of my hard earned salary for these people..
A gun rack in a pick-up is not for holding guns. Its a place for women to hold on to. Smile
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#14
You're kidding me right? Republicans have been screaming to allow insurance companies to do business across state lines and to forbid group insurance (essentially making one group based on the total risk pool). This would have solved the bulk of the problem about affordability and availability. NOT FORCING COMPANIES TO PAY FOR ELECTIVE MEDICAL EXPENSES THAT DRIVE UP COSTS! Sure you won't get everything in every plan without paying for it but you could easily get normal insurance that would cost you the average cost per person +10% for profit. No matter how you slice the pie that is going to be what it costs us all. Sure Gary, the guy with a job that barely survives on the pay check he gets today, will pay a little more and have health insurance but he won't be able to pay the $60 more because he now works 10 hours less so his employer doesn't have to pay for healthcare he also lost all sorts of right being part-time. If that didn't happen he now has to pay $60 from his $2000 pay check every month. Great not only does he now pay double to triple for gas to get to work which was killing him he now has to come up with $60 for a plan that won't actually pay shit towards his costs. The chuck who makes $100k a year is now paying $1000 more a month not for his family but for Gary's family that isn't getting shit for coverage. Great the company he works for tries to make up for it by charging more but the economy can't afford to pay that now because Gary and Chuck have less money in their pockets to pay for stuff. Once you're FORCED to pay for something you can't afford it causes a drag on the economy that is incredibly far reaching and devastating. The outlook here is awful because instead of addressing the problem they only shifted wealth which kills jobs and payroll. Enjoy the shit we have in the name of good intentions.

gonzogeezer;119956 Wrote:Using the ER isn't healthcare, it's medical treatment, and the most expensive kind of medical treatment. That in and of itself is a major component of our healthcare costs. Any solution, whether Obamacare or whatever the Republicans think they're going to offer (we haven't heard anything yet about their solution), has to be cheaper than ER treatment. Preventive care and regular physicals can do a lot to cut down on medical treatment costs. But ERs can't do regular physicals, can't do preventive care.

I didn't use to care about healthcare costs. I worked full-time and my employer provided it as part of my compensation. But for the last three years I've been buying my own healthcare insurance, I've been in the middle of this business, and I can tell you it sucks, big time. I'm ready to try anything different, even if it means starting with Obamacare and then changing it down the road into something more palatable.
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#15
(09-30-2013, 08:06 PM)ExcelToExcel Wrote: You're kidding me right? Republicans have been screaming to allow insurance companies to do business across state lines and to forbid group insurance (essentially making one group based on the total risk pool). This would have solved the bulk of the problem about affordability and availability.

What about pre-existing conditions ?
What about the uninsured who would still be using ERs? I think that's a bigger group left unserved than the group you cited.

I'm not saying that Obamacare is the answer. I'm saying what we have now is not the answer. And the Republicans have not provided a solution that covers all that needs to be covered.

I remember when Medicare got approved back in 1965. A lot of the same sorts of problems were encountered that are being encountered with Obamacare. Maybe it needs to be allowed to play out and improve some things, cut some things, close the loopholes , etc.

I personally have to hold on for three more years, then I can collect Medicare and bitch about that. But today I have pre-existing conditions and insurance is incredibly expensive for me as a retired person. I'm figuring Obamacare isn't going to be any worse for me. I also see that Congress isn't going to get rid of it. I have an appointment at the Highmark storefront next week to sit down and see what policy, what coverage I can find.
-gonzo
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#16
gonzogeezer;120114 Wrote:
(09-30-2013, 08:06 PM)ExcelToExcel Wrote: You're kidding me right? Republicans have been screaming to allow insurance companies to do business across state lines and to forbid group insurance (essentially making one group based on the total risk pool). This would have solved the bulk of the problem about affordability and availability.

What about pre-existing conditions ?
What about the uninsured who would still be using ERs? I think that's a bigger group left unserved than the group you cited.

I'm not saying that Obamacare is the answer. I'm saying what we have now is not the answer. And the Republicans have not provided a solution that covers all that needs to be covered.

I remember when Medicare got approved back in 1965. A lot of the same sorts of problems were encountered that are being encountered with Obamacare. Maybe it needs to be allowed to play out and improve some things, cut some things, close the loopholes , etc.

I personally have to hold on for three more years, then I can collect Medicare and bitch about that. But today I have pre-existing conditions and insurance is incredibly expensive for me as a retired person. I'm figuring Obamacare isn't going to be any worse for me. I also see that Congress isn't going to get rid of it. I have an appointment at the Highmark storefront next week to sit down and see what policy, what coverage I can find.

I clearly talked about their plan and how it would actually solve the healthcare rise in costs and that is the solution as best as possible.

Pre-existing conditions are not an issue. Never really were. They seem like issues because you don't get treated like anyone else. you have to wait like 36 months before they cover you but did you ever get insurance with the pre-existing exclusion and then TELL the physician that you're uninsured for it? My guess is no. Read below.

Worried about Rx's well guess what? Did you contact the manufacturer? Most, if not all of them, have assistance programs and coupons. Did you look into walmarts generic program? If I try to get methoprednisolne via my Rx plan I'll pay a small fortune. If I order it from pet meds I'll get it for pennies a pill. If i tell walmart I have no Insurance plan I'll get it for dollars. If I tell CVS I'll get it discounted. Like every other purchase, you can hunt and find things cheaper. The problem is we go for convenience and you pay far more at 7/11 for a bottle of coke than at BBs. Who's fault is that? Who's problem is that. I can tell you this it isn't ours, it's yours, yet we're paying for it.

As for the the people waiting in the er or walkin services, they will still be there because they still cannot afford it or (WHAT THEY CAN DO RIGHT NOW) they can just go to a clinic. They will not be able to get into see their PCPs on a moments notice and the costs to do so will actually be greater than a simple clinic. My PCP has to literally close his office and reopen it one Wednesdays for CASH only patient clinic because the GOVERNMENT makes it ILLEGAL for him to accept cash payments and medicaid and medicare patients under the same business. Minimal coverage is all these same people will still NOT be able to afford and that will carry with it greater expenses than today. The uninsured get better rates today (if they bother to try) than people sporting the coverage that they will get from Obama care.


I'll just leave this here and you can tell me what the real problem really is.
http://rbv3.com/blog/again-with-colonoscopies/#respond

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...86176.html
Quote:Jeffrey Singer: The Man Who Was Treated for $17,000 Less
Bypassing his third-party payer, my patient avoided a high hospital 'list price.'

It talks about a guy that has obama care like health insurance that would have had him paid 20k with his insurance and then re-applied for the same operation as uninsured and went from a 20k operation to a 3k operation (less than one years worth of premiums for his health care coverage that covers shit.

The problem doesn't really exist if you're uninsured!

I'm in the field and have better than average knowledge of the non-sense that plagues us now.

These "low cost" plans pay for nothing and in fact a they often actually make you pay more than if you had no insurance and just simply paid your own way. Even the best plans do this.

The problem is people don't have $3k lying around even but since they don't have 3k lying around they can't pay 4K for health insurance either.

Do they deserve medical treatment? Yes. Will they be denied? No, that is if they aren't morons and do some research..

If the treatment gets into even six figure territory you can and will get it for less than typical premiums if you know what to do.

Oh and if you think you have it bad now... Wait until medicare. (well I guess the doughnut hole is getting closed) Right now my girlfriend is just getting out of the doughnut hole, cost? $2000 out of pocket costs this year for her Rx before she's finally out of it yesterday actually. Do you have $2000 for Rx + your regular copay when you're out of it?

Your life your health is your responsibility, not anyone elses. You got plagued with bad health? Either your fault or not your fault? Not our problem. You want me to pay for it? Come on. we all have enough bad luck and bad times to pay for ourselves, why put that cost on others?

Health insurance should simply be for catastrophic or long term illness. Not restless leg syndrome and a yearly check up. In fact most of us do't come close to using health care to cover our premiums. The problem is people go to the doctors for every sniffle, parents are the worst, driving their kids in for some excessive snot production. If they had to pay the doc themselves they would do it. Since most of them will get shitty health care that will pay for nothing maybe it'll curtail the waste. However, I suspect the joblessness that is inevitable will turn the poor me poor me I need help into fuck that "help" made me lose my job and owe the government $50 a month in penalties because I still can't afford it oh wait I'll get that catastrophic plan because it's $45 a month and at least I'll have something that will still make me go bankrupt if the SHTF anyway but at least some of it will get paid.

Republicans have suggested the best alternative to the essentially worthless insurance most people will be forced to buy now anyway and be even less able to afford it than ever before.

We should extend this to cover housing. It's that a basic need too? Everyone must buy housing or be fined for not having a home. That'll help. So we would then have an explosion of small shanties because I might as well pay $100 a month to live under a rusty roof with four sticks holding it up with no electricity or working plumbing than $110 fine a month for not having one. Brilliant.
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#17
Obamascare might have had a chance in a bustling economy. Unfortunately, the Bumbler in Chief has done everything in his power to stifle the economy. The economy is THE BIG PICTURE. Everything is subservient to the economy in a free market system, and Resident Obama is a Marxist Socialist... the enemy of capitalism.

There are more funds to be found for healthcare for those in need when the system is allowed to work. The only government intervention needed is to ensure no fraud or waste is taking place in tax funded subsidies. That's it. If a company is making unethical choices or practicing discriminatorially, it will fail on its own as customers choose other options. If providers are offering substandard care, customers will seek care elsewhere, forcing bad providers to change or perish.

Free market health care generates taxable revenue and larger margins, enabling more programs and services for the lower income/uninsured, and simultaneously stimulates advancements and streamlined service. Free market healthcare forces insurers and providers to strive for the best.

Obama-don't-care seeks to hold everyone down to the lowest common denominator, and yes... it really is that simple.
tolerance for failure meter... LOW
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