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Terrorist attack in Paris
#21
As soon as I saw the video of the two Japanese hostages, I immediately got a mental image of somewhere in Japan...

There is a warrior on his knees, tying a white bandana, with a red dot, across his forehead, and adjusting his sword belt.
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DeadEye, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Jun 2013.
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#22
DeadEye;160751 Wrote:As soon as I saw the video of the two Japanese hostages, I immediately got a mental image of somewhere in Japan...

There is a warrior on his knees, tying a white bandana, with a red dot, across his forehead, and adjusting his sword belt.

Unfortunately, Japan is largely caught in a wave of hard partying and feminizing the male population that is fighting age.
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#23
I think part of it is that since Japan is literally ~98-99% Asian they don't have to put up with the politically correct bullshit that we do. In pretty much every Asian country they get away with FAR more racist/un-politically correct stuff than we ever will. There just aren't enough minority communities for anyone to give a shit about what they say. The whole tolerance and diversity obsession hasn't taken root in Asia yet.

This is Korean TV, but it illustrates the point... It would be fun to see social media have a collective meltdown if this appeared on our TV:

[Image: Screen+shot+2012-02-28+at+10.27.23+AM.png]
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#24
(01-22-2015, 08:36 PM)Emoticon Wrote: I think part of it is that since Japan is literally ~98-99% Asian they don't have to put up with the politically correct bullshit that we do. In pretty much every Asian country they get away with FAR more racist/un-politically correct stuff than we ever will. There just aren't enough minority communities for anyone to give a shit about what they say. The whole tolerance and diversity obsession hasn't taken root in Asia yet.

This is Korean TV, but it illustrates the point... It would be fun to see social media have a collective meltdown if this appeared on our TV:

[Image: Screen+shot+2012-02-28+at+10.27.23+AM.png]

And so what is wrong with that, or something similar, to wear over to the Middle East, as "urban camouflage"? Think of them trying to pull off a raid to save their people. Kinda like a former coworker of mine. A former frogman in Southeast Asia. American Irish decent, 6'-4" tall, pale white skin, round blue eyes. He stuck out like a sore thumb.
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#25
I fond another video where CNN was pulling this same shit taking care to treat Muslims with kid gloves and censoring images of mohammed. You can also see how much worse this cancer of political correctness has spread such that we have people actually actively promoting jihad on our news outlets now compared to the time of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp5PvZC0vRs

Another thing I've been thinking about in the wake of this Paris attack is this painting from the Sistine Chapel by Michelangelo's, "The Creation of Adam":

[Image: hand-of-God-giving-life-to-Adam-Mich.jpg]

Of course going through Christian art history depictions of "The Father" are not exactly rare, so how about this one by Titian?

[Image: 640px-Tizian_041.jpg]

I don't know why I had not considered it before, but I now find it interesting that this image is not considered inherently blasphemous and offensive by Christians. Remember the 2nd commandment; "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image of the Lord thy God"? What is this if not a graven image of God himself? Theoretically, why shouldn't Christians be offended by this in the same way Muslims are offended by graven images of Mohammed? Why is the second commandment not valued by Christians in the same way as the other commandments?
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#26
Emoticon;160872 Wrote:I don't know why I had not considered it before, but I now find it interesting that this image is not considered inherently blasphemous and offensive by Christians. Remember the 2nd commandment; "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image of the Lord thy God"? What is this if not a graven image of God himself? Theoretically, why shouldn't Christians be offended by this in the same way Muslims are offended by graven images of Mohammed? Why is the second commandment not valued by Christians in the same way as the other commandments?

A graven image is one that is worshiped in lieu of the "real thing". Praying to a picture or a statue made by man is what the 2nd commandment is about (ie a false idol). Christians can see a painting of God and not pray to it, but rather appreciate it as art. I think the original intent was to discourage polytheistic practices the Egyptians had like praying to a statue of Ra or to a golden calf. The Jews wanted a more mysterious God.

Mohammad was a man, a prophet, not Allah himself, which makes the logic about prohibition even more tortured. It's like Mormons prohibiting any image of Joseph Smith and cutting off your head for it.

Christ was supposedly both man and God. So I guess you could rationalize that the images are of the man and you don't pray to the image itself. To me, this is another clue that Islam is F-ed up.

But what do I know, I am agnostic.
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#27
Coops;160883 Wrote:
Emoticon;160872 Wrote:I don't know why I had not considered it before, but I now find it interesting that this image is not considered inherently blasphemous and offensive by Christians. Remember the 2nd commandment; "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image of the Lord thy God"? What is this if not a graven image of God himself? Theoretically, why shouldn't Christians be offended by this in the same way Muslims are offended by graven images of Mohammed? Why is the second commandment not valued by Christians in the same way as the other commandments?

A graven image is one that is worshiped in lieu of the "real thing". Praying to a picture or a statue made by man is what the 2nd commandment is about (ie a false idol). Christians can see a painting of God and not pray to it, but rather appreciate it as art. I think the original intent was to discourage polytheistic practices the Egyptians had like praying to a statue of Ra or to a golden calf.

This. It's speaking specifically of idolatry, and the worshiping of those idols, not the depiction of God. Also, there is no verse which says what you're quoting about making a graven image "of the Lord thy God"--you're misquoting.

The true irony is that Muslims aren't freaking out about the images of God or Jesus that Christians use. In Islam Jesus is a prophet as well, and God is God...and images of the two *should* have the same outrage as depictions of Mohamed, because the teachigns which forbid it (incidentally are not from the Koran) prohibit ALL depictions of ANY visual representation of God or any prophet.
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#28
Coops;160883 Wrote:
Emoticon;160872 Wrote:I don't know why I had not considered it before, but I now find it interesting that this image is not considered inherently blasphemous and offensive by Christians. Remember the 2nd commandment; "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image of the Lord thy God"? What is this if not a graven image of God himself? Theoretically, why shouldn't Christians be offended by this in the same way Muslims are offended by graven images of Mohammed? Why is the second commandment not valued by Christians in the same way as the other commandments?

A graven image is one that is worshiped in lieu of the "real thing". Praying to a picture or a statue made by man is what the 2nd commandment is about (ie a false idol). Christians can see a painting of God and not pray to it, but rather appreciate it as art. I think the original intent was to discourage polytheistic practices the Egyptians had like praying to a statue of Ra or to a golden calf. The Jews wanted a more mysterious God.

Mohammad was a man, a prophet, not Allah himself, which makes the logic about prohibition even more tortured. It's like Mormons prohibiting any image of Joseph Smith and cutting off your head for it.

Christ was supposedly both man and God. So I guess you could rationalize that the images are of the man and you don't pray to the image itself. To me, this is another clue that Islam is F-ed up.

But what do I know, I am agnostic.

The second image there is from an altar in Spain I believe. It kind of strikes me personally as splitting hairs to say using a vehicle of prayer, in this case the altar with an image of God that you are not in some way worshipping the physical image while using it. I could be wrong but I imagine when many people think about what God looks like in their minds it stands to reason they are imagining something close to what is depicted in the artwork. Isn't that still worshipping a graven image then in their minds? In my mind if there were a god it would be indescribable and formless unless actually capable of assuming a specific form in order to interact with people, but if that is the case it's not really what it actually looks like and therefore impossible to actually make a graven image in that way.

If in I did quote the commandment incorrectly it's because I was going from memory. I did not look it up to verify that's just the old English that presented itself in my brain when thinking back to it. So I probably am wrong about the specific wording.
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#29
Emoticon;160903 Wrote:I could be wrong but I imagine when many people think about what God looks like in their minds it stands to reason they are imagining something close to what is depicted in the artwork. Isn't that still worshipping a graven image then in their minds? In my mind if there were a god it would be indescribable and formless unless actually capable of assuming a specific form in order to interact with people, but if that is the case it's not really what it actually looks like and therefore impossible to actually make a graven image in that way.

Picturing what you think God looks like while praying to Him is not the same thing as praying to an actual idol or a painting or what have you and treating it as a physical manifestation of Him while praying to it and revering it as if the object in question was an actual representation.

The currently popular "all roads lead to the same God" point of view existed during the time the commandments were written, and some of the Jews wanted to create a statue to worship like they did in Egypt as a tangible "place holder" for God. This was not acceptable, because the object is the object of worship and is why the commandment exists.

Quote:If in I did quote the commandment incorrectly it's because I was going from memory. I did not look it up to verify that's just the old English that presented itself in my brain when thinking back to it. So I probably am wrong about the specific wording.

No worries, very easy to do for pretty much anyone. Just correcting you because the meaning and intent change dramatically if it was what you said. And if it was what you said it was, there would be a lot of incredible and beautiful artwork missing from the world.
Vampire pig man since September 2012
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#30
Camper;160904 Wrote:
Emoticon;160903 Wrote:I could be wrong but I imagine when many people think about what God looks like in their minds it stands to reason they are imagining something close to what is depicted in the artwork. Isn't that still worshipping a graven image then in their minds? In my mind if there were a god it would be indescribable and formless unless actually capable of assuming a specific form in order to interact with people, but if that is the case it's not really what it actually looks like and therefore impossible to actually make a graven image in that way.

Picturing what you think God looks like while praying to Him is not the same thing as praying to an actual idol or a painting or what have you and treating it as a physical manifestation of Him while praying to it and revering it as if the object in question was an actual representation.

The currently popular "all roads lead to the same God" point of view existed during the time the commandments were written, and some of the Jews wanted to create a statue to worship like they did in Egypt as a tangible "place holder" for God. This was not acceptable, because the object is the object of worship and is why the commandment exists.

See that's what caused me to get off the Christianity train as a kid. While it may be true that is the current general interpenetration of the consensus of Christians, there is no Black's Law Dictionary where that stuff is actually defined clearly. The religious dogma of today seems to just be whatever people interpret it to mean, which seems to usually be interpreted in the most convenient way to maintain the current status quo or belief. I can't just accept the "because it is" reasoning. The way I read the second commandment as a semi-outsider would be if I'm imagining God looks like an Easter Island stone head in my brain then I'm probably sinning. I also don't trust the minds of the translators who have translated the bible over the eons to not emphasize the things that they believe are important from the original source material.

In my mind, to be a modern Christian and make the claim that you are worshiping in the way God intended way back in the beginning of civilization with the modern interpretation of the Bible... it's akin to saying to the IRS definitively that you've never broken one of the 10 billion tax laws we have on the books. It's pretty much impossible to make a claim like that yet many people believe that if you don't believe in their particular style of worship that you're condemned to hell. It makes no sense. There is far too much uncertainty of what the truth really is and way to much accepting the opinion of other men.
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