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The Perils of Open Carry
#1
The Perils of Open Carry
This article can be found here: http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/th...open-carry Your Thoughts????
Written by Greg Ellifritz



Written by: Greg Ellifritz



As of today, every state in the USA has some type of provision to allow citizens obtain a permit to carry a concealed handgun while engaged in lawful activity. In some states, that permit is easy to get. In others (like California or Hawaii) it is almost impossible unless you are politically connected.





What many people don’t know is that the UNCONCEALED (or open) carry of firearms is not legally regulated in many states. Here in Ohio, it is completely legal for anyone over the age of 21 (without a history of mental illness, drug addiction, or felony conviction) to carry a firearm in public. No permit is needed as long as the gun is not concealed.

Did you know this was legal activity?

It’s rare, but occasionally you will see someone carrying openly. Most do it as a political statement. They are trying to raise awareness for better concealed carry laws and promote the idea that guns can and should be safely carried by anyone who wants to. I applaud the gun rights activism. I think people should recognize that guns are not necessarily bad and get used to “normal” people carrying them.





This article got me contemplating the issue:


Unarmed man attempts to rob EMU student of holstered gun



I’ve come to the conclusion that open carry just isn’t a very good idea most of the time.





First of all, if you live in a state where open carry is legal, I am not trying to limit your rights to carry a gun. Go for it if you want…just put some thought into it before you wear your gun into WalMart. I want to provide some information on a topic I know…the carrying of guns. Hopefully my arguments will make you think twice about carrying openly.





Open carry can lead to numerous problems. As a cop responding to calls about this activity and as a person who carries a concealed handgun everywhere, I have a unique insight. Here are some of the issues:





1) Open carry will cause hassles with other people and eventually the police. Unless you live in a western state, open carry isn’t very common. When the uneducated populace sees someone carrying a gun (without a badge), they assume that a law is being broken. They panic and call the cops. What they tell the dispatcher when they call generally has no basis in truth. It usually ends up being something like: “There’s a man with a gun running around the grocery store scaring people!” If you were a cop, how would you respond to that call?





If the caller would have been honest and said “There’s a person walking around the grocery store who has a gun on his hip. He isn’t threatening anyone and appears to be shopping.” As a cop, I wouldn’t even approach you. I’d educate the caller that no laws were being broken and leave.





But that’s just not how it happens in real life. Blame it on whomever you like, but reality dictates you’ll get a police response. The police response may be positive, or it may be negative. Who wants to deal with that when you can simply cover your gun?





2) Criminals may not be deterred by openly carried guns. For an obvious example of this, look at the article linked above. That guy just waited for the gun carrier to look the other direction and he attacked, trying to rip the gun out of the holster. Any serious violent criminal who has been in the game for awhile knows how to check the crowd before he commits the crime. He’s looking for witnesses, cops, security guards, and anyone who will likely intervene. If he finds one of those people, he deals with them FIRST, then he goes on to commit the crime.





The armed robber (who has his gun concealed) could just shoot you in the back of the head before moving on to take the cash. Or he might do worse…what if he takes your child hostage and orders you to give up your gun? Most people don’t think about that possibility.



A criminal looks at this scene differently. He thinks, “If I snatch the kid, Dad will give up the gun.” And most of the time, the criminal is right.



Keep your cards hidden. That gives you multiple response options. Once the armed criminals know you are packing, you’ll be the first one shot.





3) Getting your gun taken away is always possible! Most people who carry guns tell me “I never let a criminal get within 10 feet of me. I’m constantly aware of my surroundings.” It’s bullshit. They are deluding themselves. It’s physically impossible for one human to simultaneously scan 360 degrees at the same time. You always have to turn your back to something! Especially in a crowded public area, you simply can’t process all of the information fast enough to decide who is a threat and who isn’t.





Every year about 10 percent of the cops who are killed in the line of duty are killed with their own firearms. Cops are trained to be alert, they often work with partners, and they have the best retention holsters available. Yet they still get their guns taken from them! You think you can do better because you took a one-day CCW course? Understand reality. You can’t see everything and you can’t win every fight. Your gun can be taken and used against you.





4) Most people who carry guns have crappy holsters and no weapon retention skills. I teach force-on-force fighting skills to cops and citizens. In those courses, I teach my students what to do if someone grabs their holstered gun. Even after multiple days of training, the students still have trouble retaining their firearm in a surprise attack. Most pistol packers don’t even have the benefit of this kind of training.





Think about this for a second. You are open carrying a gun on your right hip. I walk up to you and engage you in casual conversation…something like “Hey! Don’t our kids go to the same school?” As you are trying to figure out who I am, I move closer and I grab your right hand with my right hand and pin it to my chest. You struggle, but because I’m stronger, you can’t free yourself. As soon as I have the arm controlled, I grab your holstered pistol with my left hand. How are you going to stop that?





I’ve done that scenario on dozens of students. It almost always works. I end up with their gun and they have a puzzled look on their face.





It’s even easier to do when you are wearing a crappy holster. That “great deal” you found at the gun show will rip right off your pants if I yank on it. Trust me. I have some trophies from my force-on-force training sessions. In every class, I destroy a Fobus holster with one pull. You may think it’s used by the Israeli Military, but it isn’t. It’s trash. If you don’t believe me watch THIS VIDEO. It isn’t just the Fobus. I’ve done similar things with lots of other junky holsters. Smart gun owners don’t use junk holsters.



If your defensive holster looks like this, you are going to have a big surprise if you have to fight over your gun.



Just because you can carry openly doesn’t mean you should. A friend summed it up perfectly when he said “It would be perfectly legal for a redneck white dude to strut around a ghetto wearing an “Obama is an idiot” T-shirt, but would it be a good idea?”





Your carry method may be legal, but it may also cost you your life.
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#2
*yawn*

Oh, look. It's the same old, regurgitated, poorly-founded, and emotional babble about open carry, and he's even managed to mix in a couple wild-assed assumptions based on pure fantasy.

Like his method for disarming someone because he is stronger, as though that were true in all cases, and also assuming that his "victim" has had no training of their own. He comes across like a participant in the James Yeager race to see who can be the biggest asshole first. We have seen accounts where LEOs have had difficulty in removing someone's pistol when the other person is complying. One of the first and most important rules of any competent self-defense or martial arts training is: Never underestimate your opponent. Well, that's the first mistake he makes.

Every single on of his points has been debunked endlessly, but when you're preaching to your choir who needs reality?

EDIT: For example, it was all I could do to continue reading after seeing this little gem, which is so old and untrue I don't think even the brady campaign uses it any more...

Quote:1) Open carry will cause hassles with other people and eventually the police. Unless you live in a western state, open carry isn’t very common. When the uneducated populace sees someone carrying a gun (without a badge), they assume that a law is being broken. They panic and call the cops. What they tell the dispatcher when they call generally has no basis in truth. It usually ends up being something like: “There’s a man with a gun running around the grocery store scaring people!” If you were a cop, how would you respond to that call?

It's a shame too, for all his training creds and experience he still can't get past his blatant emotion-driven agenda. I think I stumble back in to the kitchen and take a mega-dose of folic acid in hopes of gaining back at least some of the IQ points I lost after reading that drivel.
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

William Pitt
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#3
Curmudgeon;139424 Wrote:*yawn*

Oh, look. It's the same old, regurgitated, poorly-founded, and emotional babble about open carry, and he's even managed to mix in a couple wild-assed assumptions based on pure fantasy.

Like his method for disarming someone because he is stronger, as though that were true in all cases, and also assuming that his "victim" has had no training of their own. He comes across like a participant in the James Yeager race to see who can be the biggest asshole first. We have seen accounts where LEOs have had difficulty in removing someone's pistol when the other person is complying. One of the first and most important rules of any competent self-defense or martial arts training is: Never underestimate your opponent. Well, that's the first mistake he makes.

Every single on of his points has been debunked endlessly, but when you're preaching to your choir who needs reality?

EDIT: For example, it was all I could do to continue reading after seeing this little gem, which is so old and untrue I don't think even the brady campaign uses it any more...

Quote:1) Open carry will cause hassles with other people and eventually the police. Unless you live in a western state, open carry isn’t very common. When the uneducated populace sees someone carrying a gun (without a badge), they assume that a law is being broken. They panic and call the cops. What they tell the dispatcher when they call generally has no basis in truth. It usually ends up being something like: “There’s a man with a gun running around the grocery store scaring people!” If you were a cop, how would you respond to that call?

It's a shame too, for all his training creds and experience he still can't get past his blatant emotion-driven agenda. I think I stumble back in to the kitchen and take a mega-dose of folic acid in hopes of gaining back at least some of the IQ points I lost after reading that drivel.
But he is a police officer, he knows much better than us.Ninja
das, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#4
Yes, he has very special knowledge about something he's never done. Typical douchebag.

And he tells me exactly what will happen even though it's never happened.

But this one is classic - as a cop, what he is going to do...

If a cop says he will stand up for your rights, he is full of shit. If a cop says he will arrest you if you do that, he is full of shit. If a cop says, "If you shoot him outside, just drag him inside the door" he is full of shit. If a cop says, "If I saw you do that I would put two in your head," he is full of shit.

Cops are packed with more shit than my 3,000 gallon septic tank. They can predict what will happen in a given scenario, yet are always wrong 100% of the time. They can tell you what they will do in a particular scenario, but they never do that. It's amazing they can do their jobs. They are either simple trained monkeys that can't explain what they do or the worst variety of dimwitted braggarts/liars you can find in our society.
I produced precise formulations for what you call, "Black Powder," for General Washington. If not for me, you would be speaking the Queen's English today. Say my name, which you cannot find with an internet search, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#5
Quote:As of today, every state in the USA has some type of provision to allow citizens obtain a permit to carry a concealed handgun while engaged in lawful activity.

This is where I stopped, because it isn't true.
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#6
Change the argument to any anti 2A stance and it would read the same, therefore the result will be the same. Just another anti.
Welcome to ObamaNation part deuxUtg
Reply
#7
Quote:Think about this for a second. You are open carrying a gun on your right hip. I walk up to you and engage you in casual conversation…something like “Hey! Don’t our kids go to the same school?” As you are trying to figure out who I am, I move closer and I grab your right hand with my right hand and pin it to my chest. You struggle, but because I’m stronger, you can’t free yourself. As soon as I have the arm controlled, I grab your holstered pistol with my left hand. How are you going to stop that?

How about I take my left fist and break your fucking nose? That ought to loosen the grip on my right arm... This jack-wagon said that he's done this demonstration plenty of times and people are astonished. Probably because it's in a classroom setting and they aren't about to assault the instructor, or a cop...
NRA (Life), GOA, FOAC (Life), NAGR, AMGOA

RocketFoot's Minion since 09-07-2012
Reply
#8
bigdawgbeav;139538 Wrote:
Quote:Think about this for a second. You are open carrying a gun on your right hip. I walk up to you and engage you in casual conversation…something like “Hey! Don’t our kids go to the same school?” As you are trying to figure out who I am, I move closer and I grab your right hand with my right hand and pin it to my chest. You struggle, but because I’m stronger, you can’t free yourself. As soon as I have the arm controlled, I grab your holstered pistol with my left hand. How are you going to stop that?

How about I take my left fist and break your fucking nose? That ought to loosen the grip on my right arm... This jack-wagon said that he's done this demonstration plenty of times and people are astonished. Probably because it's in a classroom setting and they aren't about to assault the instructor, or a cop...

There's always this.....start at 1:51 if the url doesn't skip to the right frame.

The law? The law is a human institution...
Reply
#9
The fact is; cops get shot with their own guns because they do not follow proper procedure. We did not wrestle; detain people in Iraq well holding our firearm - we handed it off - that way they could not grab it.

If corrections officers who have direct contact with inmates: also not armed; for the Same reason.

A gun owner: like everyone else; should avoid wrestling when armed.

Could someone grab you gun? Yes: but it is pretty unlikely.

And unless PA turned into the midwest: I've never seen anyone panic & I've only had one negative reaction.
PAMedic, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Jul 2013.
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#10
I.can.make.up all sorts of bullshit too but the.problem is.this.guy is an officer AND A PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC megalomaniac narcasist.
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