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Two questions pertaining to being stopped in a car by police.
#11
Damn! That means the training that I went through back in the day was wrong. You see if a cop sees someone, who knows that the cop is there, hide something on or about their person or property, that is probable cause. From Merriam-Webster;
Quote: Definition of PROBABLE CAUSE
: a reasonable ground for supposing that a charge is well-founded
and from their English learner's dictionary;
Quote: probable cause noun
[noncount] chiefly US, law : evidence that gives someone a reason to think that a crime has been or is being committed

For some reason you seem to forget that cops can actually treat you as a criminal if you act in a manner in which a reasonable person, read that as Joe Average, would consider curious. That's why cops stop people on the street after you called to report someone acting strangely. Smile
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#12
Obviously you need to go back to your trainer and tell him he's an idiot. Locking your car and preventing an officer from searching it is NOT reasonable suspicion. It is perfectly allowed by law. Not consenting to a search is not an indication that a crime is afoot.

Quote:: a reasonable ground for supposing that a charge is well-founded

What's the charge? Seriously what's the charge? That you may have something illegal in your car? That' isn't a charge. You have to articulate what that charge is.


Quote:ar·tic·u·late [adj., n. ahr-tik-yuh-lit; v. ahr-tik-yuh-leyt] Show IPA adjective, verb, ar·tic·u·lat·ed, ar·tic·u·lat·ing, noun
adjective
1.
uttered clearly in distinct syllables.
2.
capable of speech; not speechless.
3.
using language easily and fluently; having facility with words: an articulate speaker.
4.
expressed, formulated, or presented with clarity and effectiveness: an articulate thought.
5.
made clear, distinct, and precise in relation to other parts: an articulate form; an articulate shape; an articulate area.

My guess is you never learned that part from what your trainer told you..


billamj;76708 Wrote:Damn! That means the training that I went through back in the day was wrong. You see if a cop sees someone, who knows that the cop is there, hide something on or about their person or property, that is probable cause. From Merriam-Webster;
Quote: Definition of PROBABLE CAUSE
: a reasonable ground for supposing that a charge is well-founded
and from their English learner's dictionary;
Quote: probable cause noun
[noncount] chiefly US, law : evidence that gives someone a reason to think that a crime has been or is being committed

For some reason you seem to forget that cops can actually treat you as a criminal if you act in a manner in which a reasonable person, read that as Joe Average, would consider curious. That's why cops stop people on the street after you called to report someone acting strangely. Smile

Some cops will treat you as a criminal regardless of how you act or look. WTF do I care. If an officer asks me to get out of my car I'm locking the door. Period. If he proceeds to search, or even gets a search warrant based on me locking my car, it'll all get thrown out in a reasonable court, or appealate court, if I said nothing and nothing was in plain view of the officer. The good part, I don't have shit in my car. Once they finish searching (unless they plant something, yes it happens we have a few videos of brainiac police officers throwing stuff in cars) I have a perfect civil rights case and official corruption charge per se if need be..

The video is exactly how you should act in real life.. Period. The cop is not your friend, buddy or confidant. Their job is to arrest you and they will and should try to find a reason to do so because it's their job..
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#13
There are two standards:

Reasonable Articulatable Suspicion (RAS) and Probable Cause (PC). To use non-technical terms, RAS is where someone could have done something but there really isn't much evidence. I.e. a person walking down the street at 3AM in dark clothing with a bag after a person with his description burglarized a nearby house.

PC: the person probably did it. The person mentioned above consents to a search and you find burglary tools and items stolen from the residence. It is entirely possible it is a coincidence and he found the bag on the ground. However, he probably did it. Probable cause for the arrest.

Locking keys in the car is by no means PC that the driver committed a crime and is attempting to conceal evidence of the crime from the officer.

MW is great for defining every-day words, but not so great for defining legal terms and how they are applied in the real world.
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#14
billamj;76708 Wrote:Damn! That means the training that I went through back in the day was wrong.

Yes. 100%. Locking the keys in your car, locking the car as you get out, is not RS. At all.


If you did that shit to me, searched my fucking car because of that, I'd sue you into oblivion and win. Guaranteed.

I seriously hope you're not a cop.

Do you not know other things either? Like the laws about recording police in PA?
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#15
RIght.. Thanks for the correction. Reasonable articulate suspicion means you see something that a reasonable person would be able to believe as reasonable to suspect the individual is committing a crime. Like if I stick something in my pocket quickly as the officer approaches. If the officer searches THAT pocket alone and finds it was a snot rag and nothing else but lint in that pocket the search (minus searching outer clothing for weapons NOT LITTLE PACKETS THAT FEEL LIKE CRACK) If it doesn't feel like a weapon the officer is not allowed to take it out and look at it unless you give him permission. If he does, that's an illegal search. If he feels what seems like a knife or gun or weapon he can take it out.

Probable Cause only pertains to, hey that guy is holding a crowbar and that door over there was smashed in by something that could have been a crowbar so I'm arresting that mother...

Probable cause isn't motivated by locking a car door.

rmagill;76716 Wrote:There are two standards:

Reasonable Articulatable Suspicion (RAS) and Probable Cause (PC). To use non-technical terms, RAS is where someone could have done something but there really isn't much evidence. I.e. a person walking down the street at 3AM in dark clothing with a bag after a person with his description burglarized a nearby house.

PC: the person probably did it. The person mentioned above consents to a search and you find burglary tools and items stolen from the residence. It is entirely possible it is a coincidence and he found the bag on the ground. However, he probably did it. Probable cause for the arrest.

Locking keys in the car is by no means PC that the driver committed a crime and is attempting to conceal evidence of the crime from the officer.

MW is great for defining every-day words, but not so great for defining legal terms and how they are applied in the real world.
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#16
I don't think he is. But if he was/is boy is he looking to get sued.

If I ever have to sue a cop.. I'm sueing him personally alone THEN I'll sue the department. That way I can put a lean on his mother fucking house and have a sheriff come to his house and sell his crap record player and laptop at auction for humiliation purpose.

I'll also take out a full two page ad in the local paper printing the judgment to bitch slap that mother fucker. I can let some things roll but being an out and out bad cop I won't they are the worst criminals of the world.

Bad cops ruin this society more so than anyone. Anyone.. Murderers and child rapists have nothing on a corrupt LEO. They make it so society feels unsafe, unprotected, and under siege.

If you're a LEO DO IT RIGHT.. Get a Warrant or shut up.

NEVER NEVER NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH OF ANYTHING AND CLEARLY STATE YOU DO NOT CONSENT TO ANY SEARCH AND INVOKE YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT STRAIGHT AWAY IF A TRAFFIC STOP COMES AT YOU WITH ATTITUDE. THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE COMPLETELY.

IF THEY STILL TALK TO YOU OR ASK YOU QUESTIONS REFRAIN FROM TALKING!!! JUST STFU> PERIOD>

You're going to jail probably or possibly but talking may make it imposssible for you to get off if you did do something wrong even if it is just that you have an invasive species of houseplant in your trunk. These are the steps


1. Why have you pulled me over or stopped me (negate if they approach nor no apparent reason in a hostile mode.)

2. Clearly state you do not consent to any searches

3. Asking if you are free to leave, if not am I being detained, if so am I under arrest.

4a. if no to detained then I would like to be on my way, good bye.

4b. if yes to any I invoke the 5th amendment and refuse to talk to you into perpetuity.

5. SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH NO MATTER WHAT IS ASKED OR WHAT IS ASKED OR SAID

5A. If they ask for an LTCF at anytime, give it to them or tell them where it is.

5b. Unless driving they don't need to see your ID at all, DON'T GIVE IT TO THEM.

I'd like to have this card to hand to a cop/ minus the deaf part if I had a sense he was a dick before I started talking to him..

[Image: dgL7Bh3I1n36epawsiS2bIyvo1_400.png]

That would instantly ruin his mother fucking day.

GregorOneEye;76718 Wrote:
billamj;76708 Wrote:Damn! That means the training that I went through back in the day was wrong.

Yes. 100%. Locking the keys in your car, locking the car as you get out, is not RS. At all.


If you did that shit to me, searched my fucking car because of that, I'd sue you into oblivion and win. Guaranteed.

I seriously hope you're not a cop.

Do you not know other things either? Like the laws about recording police in PA?
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#17
ExcelToExcel;76725 Wrote:I don't think he is. But if he was/is boy is he looking to get sued.

If I ever have to sue a cop.. I'm sueing him personally alone THEN I'll sue the department. That way I can put a lean on his mother fucking house and have a sheriff come to his house and sell his crap record player and laptop at auction for humiliation purpose.

I'll also take out a full two page ad in the local paper printing the judgment to bitch slap that mother fucker. I can let some things roll but being an out and out bad cop I won't they are the worst criminals of the world.

Bad cops ruin this society more so than anyone. Anyone.. Murderers and child rapists have nothing on a corrupt LEO. They make it so society feels unsafe, unprotected, and under siege.

If you're a LEO DO IT RIGHT.. Get a Warrant or shut up.

NEVER NEVER NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH OF ANYTHING AND CLEARLY STATE YOU DO NOT CONSENT TO ANY SEARCH AND INVOKE YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT STRAIGHT AWAY IF A TRAFFIC STOP COMES AT YOU WITH ATTITUDE. THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE COMPLETELY.

IF THE STILL TALK TO YOU OR ASK YOU QUESTIONS REFRAIN FROM TALKING!!! JUST STFU> PERIOD>

But comply when they ask for your DL, Insurance and Registration. Right?
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USAF (1976 -1986) NRA, GOA Anim_sniper2
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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#18
If you're driving, you have no choice.. If you're not DO NOT SHOW ID. Unfortunately the courts think that being able to go to your momma house for thanksgiving is a privilege and not a right. It is a right but one that gets violated just about every second in america I'm sure. Of course in Texas a group sued to not have to have a DL and they won.. Several times actually on the grounds that traveling is a right but hey...

billamj;76731 Wrote:
ExcelToExcel;76725 Wrote:I don't think he is. But if he was/is boy is he looking to get sued.
cking house and have a sheriff come to his house and sell his crap record player and laptop at auction for humiliation purpose.

I'll also take out a full two page ad in the local paper printing the judgment to bitch slap that mother fucker. I can let some things roll but being an out and out bad cop I won't they are the worst criminals of the world.

Bad cops ruin this society more so than anyone. Anyone.. Murderers and child rapists have nothing on a corrupt LEO. They make it so society feels unsafe, unprotected, and under siege.

If you're a LEO DO IT RIGHT.. Get a Warrant or shut up.

NEVER NEVER NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH OF ANYTHING AND CLEARLY STATE YOU DO NOT CONSENT TO ANY SEARCH AND INVOKE YOUR RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT STRAIGHT AWAY IF A TRAFFIC STOP COMES AT YOU WITH ATTITUDE. THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE COMPLETELY.

IF THE STILL TALK TO YOU OR ASK YOU QUESTIONS REFRAIN FROM TALKING!!! JUST STFU> PERIOD>

But comply when they ask for your DL, Insurance and Registration. Right?
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#19
ExcelToExcel;76673 Wrote:Getting out of the car is a reasonable and lawful order. Plant a secondary key outside your car. On your way out of the car lockit and throw the keys in it as you close the door. Now he needs a warrant that he wont get unless he sees a bag of pot or some blood dripping from your trunk..

I was just thinking, an alternative to this that would look less suspicious is to just leave your keys in the ignition, and lock your door right after you open it, using your left hand. If you're smooth about it, they might not even notice you locked it. And since the keys are in the ignition, it would look more like an accidental lockout than if you threw your keys in the door at the last minute.

ETA: And if they go to open the door and find that it's locked, just say, "Oh shit, where are my keys? Dammit I think they are still in the car!" Big Grin
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#20
bac0nfat;76735 Wrote:
ExcelToExcel;76673 Wrote:Getting out of the car is a reasonable and lawful order. Plant a secondary key outside your car. On your way out of the car lockit and throw the keys in it as you close the door. Now he needs a warrant that he wont get unless he sees a bag of pot or some blood dripping from your trunk..

I was just thinking, an alternative to this that would look less suspicious is to just leave your keys in the ignition, and lock your door right after you open it, using your left hand. If you're smooth about it, they might not even notice you locked it. And since the keys are in the ignition, it would look more like an accidental lockout than if you threw your keys in the door at the last minute.

ETA: And if they go to open the door and find that it's locked, just say, "Oh shit, where are my keys? Dammit I think they are still in the car!" Big Grin

Wouldn't work in my truck as the door lock pops open when the door is shut. You can only lock it form the outside.
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