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Viper's "Not as Cool at Jah's Ninja Thread" OC Log
#1
Now I have to keep up three of these things? Fuckin' A, man.

I'll start this one with a carbon copy of the latest Philadelphia encounter, and move from there. The PAFOA thread has an actual index, so I think I will add that here as it develops.

Around 7:45 or 8:00 last night, PrettyInPink and I were on South Street in Philly in between a couple of plans we had in the city. It was a beautifully busy night and the crowd was awesome, so we decided to stick around for a little while and absorb some of the life.

On the way back to the car, after having passed several Philadelphia Police Officers who either didn't notice or didn't care that I was openly carrying, we were about to walk by a group of four officers who were standing outside the Starbucks, sipping on what almost surely was free coffee. As we walked by, I watched one of the officers (short, pudgy, and tattooed) look at me, look down at my firearm, and bristle.

OFF1: "Whoa...whoa whoa whoa, sir?" As I passed by him, he had turned around and tapped me on the middle of my back a couple of times to get my attention.
Me: "Can I help you?"
OFF1: "You, uh...you have a gun on you."
Me: "Yes, I do." What else was I going to say?
OFF1: "Do you have a permit for that?"
Me: "Yes I do - would you like me to show it to you?"

Now, there's four officers here - the one I am speaking to, who is right in front of me, another smaller officer behind him, and two others who were chatting with them when we walked by. Those last two had moved back to the side of the building to put themselves behind us. PrettyInPink later told me that one of those last two officers, who said nothing during the entire encounter, was constantly watching my gun and almost never took his eyes off of it.

The two officers in front of me uncomfortably milled about a bit before Officer 1 got ready to say something again.

Me: "If you like, I can slowly reach into my rear left pocket to show you my license."
OFF1: "Here's what I am going to do - I am going to take your gun out and make it safe -"

I interrupted him.

Me: "No, you're not. I don't consent to any searches or seizures. How about this - why don't we all leave our firearms in the holsters where they belong, which is safer for everyone here. How about that?"

I must admit, I bristled a little bit. All the stories lately about police causing "accidental" (read: negligent) discharges don't help. My strong arm protectively retracted and my forearm rested on the back of my 1911.

Officer 1 was not happy being told "No." He looked down at his feet, and his body language screamed, "you want to do it this way?"

It was at this point that Officer 2, standing behind him, cut in. He touched Officer 1 on the shoulder, and said,

OFF2: "Do you want me to handle this?"
OFF1: "Is this 'the guy'?"
OFF2: "I got it."

Officer 2 stepped up and looked me in the eye. Officer 1 lights up a cigarette.

OFF2: "Do you have a license for your gun?"
Me: "Yes I do."
OFF2: "Let me see it, please."

I deliberately and somewhat slowly reached around my firearm, making sure he saw that I was being careful, and removed my wallet, handing him my Utah permit.

OFF2: "Utah. Alright." He pulled out a smartphone and started browsing the internet. I wasn't trying to read, but at a glance I saw a website with a header that included the word "Judiciary." He browsed for a couple of moments before saying anything. By this time, PrettyInPink had gotten her iPhone recording, which I will use to transcript the remainder of the encounter.

OFF2: "So what brings you to Philadelphia tonight, sir?"
Me: "That's not really anyone's business but my own."
OFF2: "Alright, that's cool."

He continued scrolling through something on his phone. I asked him what he was looking for, and if it was the phone number, he could find that on the back of the permit. He assured me that he was finding what he needed without my help. After another moment, he looked down at the 1911 again.

OFF2: "What kind of gun is that, a Smith?"
Me: "Taurus."
OFF2: "Taurus, Taurus," he repeated, acknowledging. "Didn't wanna...spend the big bucks?"
Me: "It was the least expensive, high-quality 1911 I could find. Tell you what, though - I can knock a fly off a horse's ass at 20 yards, so it works for me."
OFF2: "We'll agree to disagree on that." I guess he's a member of the "cheap guns are bad guns" camp.

After another moment, he starts to make a call on his phone, and begins to turn away.

OFF2: "Do me a favor? No furtive movements, alright?" He shot me a sly grin.
Me: "I think I've got that under control." I grinned back.

While Officer 2 was on his phone, Officer 1 couldn't help himself from asking the question.

OFF1: "Now, out of curiosity...sheer curiosity...why do you chose to carry open like that?"
Me: "It's more comfortable. It's also not very easy to conceal when you like to tuck in shirts and be comfortable."
OFF1: "Well, even carrying something like that, you can just put a shirt over it."
Me: "I just prefer it."

He let off. Officer 3, standing behind us, chimed in.

OFF3: "Where do you live?"
Me: "That's not really any of your concern. Sorry."
OFF3 (after a moment): "It is now."
Me: "I don't have any obligation to answer your questions."
OFF1: "Well, you are under investigation."
Me: "For what crime?"

Officer 2 knew this was not going to be productive for Officer 1, and called out his name twice to get his attention, waving him off and telling him not to talk to me. Officer 1 didn't say anything else.

Me: "If you're going to tell me I am under investigation, you should at least be able to tell me what law you suspect me of violating."

After another moment or two, Officer 3 walked over to Officer 2, peeking over his shoulder as the other was checking my permit's status with the Utah bureau of firearms licensing.

Officer 2 wrapped up his conversation with whomever it was he was speaking to, and came back over.

OFF2: "Do you just not want to carry PA ID?"
Me: "Since I have both, I leave one at home. If I lose my wallet, I still have one, and since the PA license is more valuable to me that's stays behind."
OFF2: "Yeh, it is much more valuable."

Officer 2 then used his phone to snap a picture of the front of my Utah permit, probably so he can file his 75-48A later without having to take notes at the time. He then handed me back my permit.

Me: "Have a nice night, guys."
OFF2: "Try not to kill anybody."

This, admittedly, almost made me chuckle. For the record, I asked,

Me: "What's your name?"

He proceeded to give us his name and badge number, which is on the video. I again said goodnight, and as we turned to walk away, Officer 2 held up his coffee and saluted PrettyInPink's phone, saying, "Hello!" to the recording.

Here is a screencap from the recording. The PPD officer you see is the officer who made the initial contact with me; in the foreground is my hip and 1911.
[Image: Philadelphia1.jpg]
[Image: MemorialDayFlag_zpsbb4a9d3b.gif]
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#2
seriuosly, how do you attract all the attention?
NRA (Life), GOA, FOAC (Life), NAGR, AMGOA

RocketFoot's Minion since 09-07-2012
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#3
Glad it went so peacefully. Educate them PPD one at a time, and maybe by the time we're 50 they'll all know the law on open carry in pa.
"As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God, protect my sweet ride."
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#4
I like your optimism.

ByblosHex;17547 Wrote:Glad it went so peacefully. Educate them PPD one at a time, and maybe by the time we're 50 they'll all know the law on open carry in pa.
donotknowme, member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
I am a unique & individual snowflake just like everyone else.
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#5
Sounds like officer 2 was a half decent guy. At least he was making an effort to keep things civil.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
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#6
Warpt762x39;17579 Wrote:Sounds like officer 2 was a half decent guy. At least he was making an effort to keep things civil.

He was cocky as ALL getout - but at the same time, he knew what the right thing to do was, and made sure it got done. So, as far as that's concerned, good job on his part, you know?
[Image: MemorialDayFlag_zpsbb4a9d3b.gif]
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#7
ViperGTS19801;17638 Wrote:
Warpt762x39;17579 Wrote:Sounds like officer 2 was a half decent guy. At least he was making an effort to keep things civil.

He was cocky as ALL getout - but at the same time, he knew what the right thing to do was, and made sure it got done. So, as far as that's concerned, good job on his part, you know?

Who knows. He may actually be a decent guy but acts like a dick around other cops.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
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#8
You can no longer OC until you get a shirt or badge or something that says, "Yes, I'm THAT guy" That way they know...
"What you're feeling now ain't the worst pain. The worst thing is not feeling the hurt anymore."
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#9
My theory is that they just don't like LEFT handed gun toters! Tongue
My guidance counselor said I wouldn't amount to anything... Lucky guess! Dodgy

[Image: mikey1j.jpg]

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#10
I call bullshit on hitting a fly off a horses ass.


Big Grin
Shrug Ive got my eyes on you
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