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Warwick Township PA pre emption violation?
#1
http://ecode360.com/11668401?highlight=f...s#11668401

Quote: § 215-2. Use of Township property.
From and after the enactment of this article, the following regulations shall be effective for the proper conduct or behavior of all persons using any facilities of the Township or being upon any Township property:


E. No person shall carry, have or discharge firearms, explosives, bows and arrows, air or spring rifles or slings unless authorized by the Township. No person shall throw stones, missiles, golf balls or similar objects.

A township owned building is not exempt correct? They are in violation of the law correct?

This is the other part of it:

http://ecode360.com/11668272#11668272


It looks like they dont come out and say no carry in a normal ordinance. But When it comes to use of their property is says it.
The Unknown87, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#2
The Unknown87;65161 Wrote:http://ecode360.com/11668401?highlight=f...s#11668401

Quote: § 215-2. Use of Township property.
From and after the enactment of this article, the following regulations shall be effective for the proper conduct or behavior of all persons using any facilities of the Township or being upon any Township property:


E. No person shall carry, have or discharge firearms, explosives, bows and arrows, air or spring rifles or slings unless authorized by the Township. No person shall throw stones, missiles, golf balls or similar objects.

A township owned building is not exempt correct? They are in violation of the law correct?

This is the other part of it:

http://ecode360.com/11668272#11668272


It looks like they dont come out and say no carry in a normal ordinance. But When it comes to use of their property is says it.

VIOLATION to the best of my understanding.

IANAL but similar happened in State College which was about the parks (Borough Property). They were told by their own solicitor that they could not legally ban the carry of on the property. They changed their ordinance.

You can find more info on "that other forum".
Ladies of the Second Amendment

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#3
Publican;65172 Wrote:
The Unknown87;65161 Wrote:http://ecode360.com/11668401?highlight=f...s#11668401


A township owned building is not exempt correct? They are in violation of the law correct?

This is the other part of it:

http://ecode360.com/11668272#11668272


It looks like they dont come out and say no carry in a normal ordinance. But When it comes to use of their property is says it.

VIOLATION to the best of my understanding.

IANAL but similar happened in State College which was about the parks (Borough Property). They were told by their own solicitor that they could not legally ban the carry of on the property. They changed their ordinance.

You can find more info on "that other forum".

I'll check into that.
I had issues with ephrata a few years ago. I still have the letter. I can edit stuff out and put stuff in and use it as a template if needed.
The Unknown87, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#4
The Unknown87;65196 Wrote:I still have the letter. I can edit stuff out and put stuff in and use it as a template if needed.

Any chance you could post up the letter template if you wouldn't mind after you come up with it? I ask because it could help with other users being proactive about pre emption violations as well.
LostBits, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Dec 2012.
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#5
LostBits;68650 Wrote:
The Unknown87;65196 Wrote:I still have the letter. I can edit stuff out and put stuff in and use it as a template if needed.

Any chance you could post up the letter template if you wouldn't mind after you come up with it? I ask because it could help with other users being proactive about pre emption violations as well.

Yep! I will post a copy once I get back tonight.
The Unknown87, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#6
You can carry in the township building, even in the police department, just not in the prison area if they have a tenant.

I've carried in there literally dozens of times, no problems. I'm always concealing, but there are ZERO "no guns" signs anywhere except the prison cell area, and state law doesn't forbid me, so I'm pretty sure I'm not breaking any laws.

Although, the entire police department building is secured so they can choose who they let in there, and kick you out whenever they want AFAIK.

FWIW, I know the police chief of Warwick and he is pro-2A and a nice guy. He's even pro-title II firearms and I'm pretty sure he will sign any form 1's or form 4's for residents of Warwick. He gets annoyed by open carriers and thinks it's stupid, but knows it's legal and wont hassle you for it, or allow his officers to hassle you for it. Especially after the George Donnelly incident.
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#7
Contact the township solicitor. That's what I usually do.
"As I lay rubber down the street I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God, protect my sweet ride."
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#8
LostBits;68650 Wrote:
The Unknown87;65196 Wrote:I still have the letter. I can edit stuff out and put stuff in and use it as a template if needed.

Any chance you could post up the letter template if you wouldn't mind after you come up with it? I ask because it could help with other users being proactive about pre emption violations as well.


This was my letter to Ephrata.



Quote:QuoteBig Grinear Nancy Harris,
Zoning and Codes Administrator.

I am a resident of Ephrata Borough and a member of an organization called The Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Association. I would like to bring to the attention of Ephrata Borough a borough ordinance that appears to be in violation of state law. I became aware of this issue when I recently read the online code book for the Borough.

Further research led me to Chapter 221: Parks and Recreation.
Chapter 221 of the Borough of Ephrata. Parks and Recreation states the following:

Ҥ 221-4. Prohibited acts.
It shall be unlawful for any person, while in any recreation area or other property owned or supervised by the Borough or using any facility thereof, to do or cause to be done or performed any of the following acts or deeds:

E: To hunt or to possess within any recreation area any firearms, air gun or bow and arrow unless such area has been set aside for such purpose and then only according to special regulations for such particular area.”

This law is in violation of Title 18, Chapter 61, Subchapter A (otherwise known as The Uniform Firearms Act), specifically §6120 (a) that states:

"General rule: No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth.”

The preemption statute I quoted was passed in 1995. I am unsure when this rule in Chapter 221 was passed. It may have been in place before 1995, explaining why it could have been overlooked. Unfortunately there was no grandfathering of existing limitations when The Uniform Firearms Act was passed.

The preemption statute I quoted is very important for Pennsylvanians that legally carry a firearm, in that it removes the problem of a traveling citizen running afoul of a myriad of local laws prohibiting where you can and cannot carry a firearm. In other words, licensed or otherwise legal carriers of firearms in Pennsylvania can carry everywhere not prohibited by state or federal law.

Of particular interest to Ephrata Borough is that since this rule is unenforceable, there could be negative consequences should an unknowing person, or even one choosing to ignore the rule knowing it is null and void, happen to be cited or otherwise confronted. If a police officer were to enforce such rule or ordinance, wrongful arrest and other charges could be laid on the officer, the police department and Ephrata Borough– not an inexpensive proposition.

I respectfully ask that the Board of Supervisors look into this matter. Please let me know how you and your colleagues will proceed with bringing Ephrata Borough in compliance with state law. A copy of §6120 is also attached, in a Microsoft word file.


Awaiting your response.

Most respectfully yours,

Edit it how you want, I found it on pafoa awhile ago.
The Unknown87, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#9
bac0nfat;68744 Wrote:You can carry in the township building, even in the police department, just not in the prison area if they have a tenant.

I've carried in there literally dozens of times, no problems. I'm always concealing, but there are ZERO "no guns" signs anywhere except the prison cell area, and state law doesn't forbid me, so I'm pretty sure I'm not breaking any laws.

Although, the entire police department building is secured so they can choose who they let in there, and kick you out whenever they want AFAIK.

FWIW, I know the police chief of Warwick and he is pro-2A and a nice guy. He's even pro-title II firearms and I'm pretty sure he will sign any form 1's or form 4's for residents of Warwick. He gets annoyed by open carriers and thinks it's stupid, but knows it's legal and wont hassle you for it, or allow his officers to hassle you for it. Especially after the George Donnelly incident.

Are you thinking of the Warwick Township that's in Lancaster? I know there's a couple of them around the state.
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#10
Thank you very much.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
LostBits, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Dec 2012.
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