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What changes WOULD you support?
#1
I recognize we're all against an AWB, or ban on hi cap mags, etc. But I'm curious, what gun control changes would you support? Please explain why or why not, and please keep it civil. Let's just consider this a brain storming session.

Let us, as gun owners see if we can recognize any gaps and find solutions to fix them.

There may not be any gaps, there may be too man controls, there may be too little controls. Let's explore it.


Ideas for topics of discussion;

Registration
Training
Storage
Enforcement of laws on the books
Mental health
Etc

Justin
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#2
Support? None! You should rephrase to which compromise would suck the least.

But then again you have posted this on a gun forum so it cost nothing to post "From my Cold Dead Hands!" regardless of what people will actually do.
Dave, proudly annoying members of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#3
JustinHEMI;55298 Wrote:... I'm curious, what gun control changes would you support? Please explain why or why not...

I would support any change that leads to LESS gun control because I believe in the US Constitution, The PA Constitution, Natural Law, and personal criminal liability.
...
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#4
What I would like to see is enforcement of the laws on the books already. That, not doubt, will not be what we see though.

As someone with two close relatives who have mental health issues I would really like to see more reporting of same to the authorities for use in PICS/NICS. It is becoming more and more apparent that without a viable mental health law people who, I believe, we can all agree should not have weapons are getting access to them. Yes, I realize that immediate family should have some control over these people but as is evidenced in the Arvada Movie Theater shooting, no adjudication means no record in NICS. That has got to change.
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"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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#5
So I'm going to play devils advocate, to spur discussion, so don't take the questions as if it is something I would support.

Registration: What's the big deal if we registered our guns going forward? They're practically registered anyway.

Storage: Isn't it common sense that we should lock up our guns when not in use? Especially if we have children or mentally ill people around? What's wrong with mandated storage requirements? The Swiss do it.

Training: Utah requires a class to get a CCW, what's wrong with everyone that is buying a gun for the first time receiving mandated training? It would be documented, so that they only had to do it once for each new type of firearm they're buying.

Justin

billamj;55307 Wrote:What I would like to see is enforcement of the laws on the books already. That, not doubt, will not be what we see though.

As someone with two close relatives who have mental health issues I would really like to see more reporting of same to the authorities for use in PICS/NICS. It is becoming more and more apparent that without a viable mental health law people who, I believe, we can all agree should not have weapons are getting access to them. Yes, I realize that immediate family should have some control over these people but as is evidenced in the Arvada Movie Theater shooting, no adjudication means no record in NICS. That has got to change.

The argument against that would be privacy issues. However, should there be such a privacy concern when you're buying a gun? I'm not sure, but I lean towards no. I think this information should be part of the the back ground check. But then, how do you know if they haven't been adjudicated?

Any ideas for that?

Justin
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#6
The only one that I would support are restrictions that prevent those with diagnosed mental health issues from accessing firearms. Along with that increased services to those with mental health issues.

Sorry, I know there are some on here who feel other wise, but I believe most of these shooters have had severe mental health issues, bottom line is if they had been prevented from having access to firearms we would not be where we are now.
glocke12, proud to be a member of pa2a.org since Sep 2012.
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#7
The only change I will support is more freedom.
The 2A is the most regulated of any so called freedom....by far.
The argument that it needs to be further regulated is a straw man argument.

Edited to add.

Last night Juan Williams actually suggested with a straight fucking face that background checks should include a family check to determine whether or not any members of your family should determine an individuals eligibility to purchase a firearm.

This is the mentality of these people. Giving them anything will be ultimately devastating.
Welcome to ObamaNation part deuxUtg
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#8
glocke12;55314 Wrote:The only one that I would support are restrictions that prevent those with diagnosed mental health issues from accessing firearms. Along with that increased services to those with mental health issues.

Sorry, I know there are some on here who feel other wise, but I believe most of these shooters have had severe mental health issues, bottom line is if they had been prevented from having access to firearms we would not be where we are now.

The question then is, how do you do that? What restrictions do you propose that would prevent those with mental health issues from accessing firearms?

Imagine that you have someone in your house like your kid. How do you propose we handle that?

Justin

God's Country;55316 Wrote:The only change I will support is more freedom.
The 2A is the most regulated of any so called freedom....by far.
The argument that it needs to be further regulated is a straw man argument.

So your argument is that any restriction is un-Constitutional?

What about the SCOTUS who said that the 2nd isn't an absolute right? That reasonable restrictions are well within the Constitutional authority of Congress.

In what ways do you think it is regulated too much?

Justin
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#9
JustinHEMI;55309 Wrote:
billamj;55307 Wrote:What I would like to see is enforcement of the laws on the books already. That, not doubt, will not be what we see though.

As someone with two close relatives who have mental health issues I would really like to see more reporting of same to the authorities for use in PICS/NICS. It is becoming more and more apparent that without a viable mental health law people who, I believe, we can all agree should not have weapons are getting access to them. Yes, I realize that immediate family should have some control over these people but as is evidenced in the Arvada Movie Theater shooting, no adjudication means no record in NICS. That has got to change.

The argument against that would be privacy issues. However, should there be such a privacy concern when you're buying a gun? I'm not sure, but I lean towards no. I think this information should be part of the the back ground check. But then, how do you know if they haven't been adjudicated?

Any ideas for that?

Justin

Therein lies the rub. The ACLU has been fighting this, and winning, since the idea first was passed back in the 80's. Because of that it is much simpler to go after guns than to go after the people who have mental health issues. I know for a fact that the mother of one of the minors I know with mental health issues would 100% sign on for reporting. Others, who knows. Bottom line is that if we're going to affect the second, which I firmly believe this will, we need to take a hard look at privacy rights for those with mental health issues. Perhaps a "hold" recorded in PICS/NICS? Not sure.
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"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Dan Cofall
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#10
Enforcement of the laws on the books is the biggest one IMO. Mental health is right there too, we need to stop trying to medicate and council the mentally ill back into sanity or normal.

Beyond that.....

In the case of this mother in CT, I would support her having to remove the firearms from her house based on her son's medical condition, and the fact that she publicly expressed fear over the matter. In that situation, a combo lock, a biometric lock, a key lock, none of that is safe anymore. When I was a kid I had no problem figuring out the combo to my Dad's safe by watching him open it a few times. I strongly believe it was her personal responsibility at that time to remove the firearms from her home, and she did not. But how do you enforce that on a legal level? You don't, not without giving up other liberties which I would never support.

My obvious concern here is the slippery slope this could potentially create. I don't believe, for example, if my son gets into a fistfight at school and gets charged with assault, that I should lose my gun rights because he becomes a prohibited person. Consider the many examples along those lines that would be linked to the CT scenario simply by living with a prohibited person.

I'm fully expecting to catch hell for this statement, but I personally would not cry if something was done about private sales of long arms. I think the process should be standardized. So either, I should be able to buy a long arm at a store without a background check and without paperwork, or I should not be able to sell a long arm in a parking lot without a background check and without paperwork. Obviously I would prefer the former, but regardless I believe the process should be standard across the board.

I do not support any law which would mandate training, I don't think it does any good at all. In CA I had to take a safety test to buy a handgun, it was utter BS. I had to demonstrate that I could load, unload, and clear a malfunction safely while using snap caps.

I do not support any law which would mandate any method of storage. I personally keep mine locked up either in a safe or a lock box if they are not on my body. That is because I have kids in the house. If I did not, I would keep my nightstand gun on the nightstand, ready to rock. Trigger locks, action locks, storing disassembled, that all looks great on paper until you consider using a firearm for self defense. Then it all goes right out the window.

I do not support a waiting period, or any monthly purchase limit. I cannot see proof of any historical instance where either one of those has stopped somebody from committing a crime. I don't see any evidence that straw purchasers are out there in mass buying 20 guns a month.

Abolish gun free zones, encourage people to arm themselves.

Get the goddamn media under control (yeah right that will never happen). The reason people choose guns, specifically black scary ar15s for these crimes is because they know the sheeple have been programmed to fear that specific weapon. These people want their victims to die in fear. The taliban in Afghanistan started equipping their fighters with huge knives that they wore hanging off their belts to fuck with the minds of American soldiers, simply because they knew beheadings make the average American tremble in fear. It is entirely a psychological thing, and while the people committing these horrible acts may not consciously realize they are doing it, that is why they are choosing the weapons they do.
The law? The law is a human institution...
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